I thought you were just modeling "submission to the church" by allowing me to surmise what you said in a different way...as a way of serving the body... :)

Ben - where did you get the idea that the husband is "leader" of his family?
If you mean "head" then I can roll with that...but...we must be careful when we use synonyms for biblical ideas/concepts, etc. I would argue that we must do the work Dave does above with the idea of "head" before we can even think about using leader as a synonym for it. And then - my experience is that the word "leader" is too loaded for people to actually grasp the subversive, self-emptying, sacrificial, no-demand-making nature of headship in the NT.

This is Dave's whole point (well, part of it, i think) is that we import paradigms, assumptions, and meanings from our thought-world and culture that actually undo the subversive power of the scriptures. We subvert the subversion via analogies and translation. Part of this is inevitable, yes? So that's why Fitch throws rhetorical grenades into our assumption-bunkers - as he blows things to pieces on the blog we get to re-assemble our assumptions holding fast to what is good and discarding what we find shouldn't be there.

Dave - your post reminds me of the ole "banyan vs. banana tree" leadership illustration. For those unfamiliar: http://bit.ly/hnEQ1n

Again, Dave, thanks for leading us in this. (typed with no hint of sarcasm or irony...)

This post bored the hell out of me. And I embrace that as one of the best things that ever happened to me.

:)

Good stuff, Dave.

Dave -
Isn't the real reason you have such a problem with video venue's because you have a face for the blogosphere? If you were as good looking as Mark Driscoll your visage could be fed all over greater chicagoland...thousands would flock to gaze upon your countenance.

:)

Jaques Ellul and his (in some sense) protege Marva Dawn wrote about the effects of technology and our spiritual formation as Christians. This is my main concern with video venue - we have been trained into ways of absorbing and listening to what is splashed on a screen that does not immediately lead to worship, response, surrender, etc. Screens assume our passivity simply by being stationary - we go to screens for entertainment and experiences, but not frequently for encounters and responses.

I once asked Driscoll f2f about the unintentional formation of video venues and how "screens" trained us into spiritual lethargy and passivity (it was a long question). His response: I think he thought I was a Luddite. He basically said, "YOu can't get away from technology. the Printing press is technology and you don't want to get away from reading the bible do you?"

After the exchange I felt a bit like Mark Dever... :)

I shared a similar framework for small group ministry yesterday at a small group ministry leader training time. The ability to ask disruptive questions in redemptive ways can lead to the opening of our lives before each other and God. I'm curious if others have been using this practice for a while can speak to obstacles/problems that arise? I appreciate the two that you mentioned Dave (autonomy and need for theological framework) - any others?

JR -

Do whatever will mess with Fitch the most. The will of God usually leads down the path of "giving Fitch fits."
miss you friend,

tebbe.