Sadly, the reality here is that without Hamas and Hizbollah being able to make some kind of accords and peace between each other, there is no hope for peace. Abbas HIMSELF has said that he is unable to make peace with Hamas because of 'regional players', and if Abbas himself cannot do it, then how can Israel force any kind of settlement between them, a reality and situation that has to happen before there can be peace between the Israelis and Pals?

Joseph, a laughable assertion. Yes, yes...we know...it's all Israel's fault. SURELY no fault of anyone else! When Israel left Lebanon, it was of course Israel's fault that Hizbollah chose to attack Israel. Surely it was not the UN's fault for not securing S. Lebanon like they promised to do in the agreement with Israel to leave S. Lebanon, right? It was Israel's fault, not Hizbollah's, for sure! And, when Israel left Gaza? That was all Israel's fault that on that FIRST DAY of their unilateral pull-out from Gaza, the first mortars began to fall on Israel... Yes, that's Israel's fault, not Hamas' fault...

I wish that those pesky Israelis would just learn to realize that it's all their fault and that no one else has any responsibility for ANYTHING that happens! The world would be so much of a better place if everyone realized that all the fault, all the blame, all the problems are Israel's and Israel's only! You're right, Joseph! Thank goodness that you're here to remind us of 'facts' and 'realities'. Forget that Israel has TWICE now offered to meet for talks! Forget that Abbas has TWICE ignored these offers. Forget that Israel has made peace with everyone that has accepted Israel's offer of peace. Forget that Israel is training the PA police and forget that half of the checkpoints and roadblocks have been abandoned by Israel because of the work of Israel in training the PA police. Yes, Joseph - let's ignore these realities and just remember the mantra: "It Has Always Been Israel's Fault and it Always Will Be Israel's Fault!"

"However, if a Palestianian dares to defend his homeland in accordance with all international legal norms, he is considered a terrorist by the US and Israel." Not true, I am not familiar with what the Pals have done "to defend his homeland in accordance with all international legal norms", unless you consider the over 8K mortars and rockets, each intended to kill innocent people, "international legal norms".

Another silly post. Babak, if you thought about it, you'd have imagined that with the culmination of a successful peace plan, there'd be no more settlements, because the Israelis and Pals will have come to an agreement for what constitutes Israel and Palestine... So, nothing that AIPAC has done or will do will affect this agreement. And, just so you know, Babak, AIPAC was instrumental in getting the PA the $600million from our government last year. You didn't know that? Really? Hardly surprising.

Wow. More thoughtless propaganda by hyper-partisans.

<For example, they claim that the war waged on the civilian infrastructure of the Gaza Strip was taken in furtherance of Israel’s “right to self-defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter.” In reality, however, while Article 51 does allow countries the right to resist an armed attack, it doesn’t grant any nation the right to engage in such a disproportionate response.>

Let's see...what does Article 51 actually say?
----
Article 51
of the Charter of the United Nations
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain inter- national peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.
---

So, did you read that first line? That gives Israel the right to attack Gaza because of the over 7K rockets shot at Israel. So, this bullshit by the author? They are either not very bright, or they are trusting that people who THEMSELVES are not that bright will not understand the nuance and forward this article to others who similarly are not that bright.

Again, this guy states, "In reality, however, while Article 51 does allow countries the right to resist an armed attack, it doesn’t grant any nation the right to engage in such a disproportionate response." He's right. It says NOTHING about ANY LEVEL or response, disproportionate or not.

What this guy obviously wants is for Israel to shoot 7K rockets back at Gaza, right? That'd be 'proportionate', would it not?

That's what you want? Israel to shoot 7K rockets at Gaza? Really?

"Have you seen the photos of the rockets Hamas allegedly launched?"

Folks, this is what Israel has to deal with. "allegedly"? Really? Have you not seen the video footage? Have you not seen them taking claim for these rockets?

"They're crude, tiny little bottle rockets--barely capable of doing any damage."

Um, except for the dozens of people that they have killed...

"Yes, it's incredibly sad that four people in Israel have died"

Um, it's only been four in the last few weeks. Why not learn something? It'll do you good. Propaganda should not be your only informational resource. Do some of your own research sometime.

"they weren't intended to hit civilians,"

Do you see, folks? People like this will excuse away the obviously actions of these groups that intentionally targeted innocents. This is what Israel has to deal with. Terror apologists.

"but they were so unadvanced that I'm assuming there was no way to predict where they would land."

So, you admit that these were un-aimable rockets, right? That's like shooting a rifle into a crowd from far away and saying that you did not mean to shoot anyone...

You're a terror apologist. Good for you.

"Now, Israel is slaughtering civilians indiscriminately."

I don't think that you know what the word "indiscriminately" means. Let's see.....let me right-click on that word....one sec..."Not making or based on careful distinctions; unselective" So, Israel's precision-guided bombs are indiscriminate, 'eh? Don't you think that this word satisfies the action of Hamas, Terrorist Apologist?

The more I read from people such as you, the more I recognize that if this is what we have to deal with rhetorically, what the Israelis have to actually deal with in the real world is so much more relevant. Propaganda vs psychopaths with rockets intentionally aimed at innocent civilians.

Now I know why I'm on the side that I'm on. I sure don't want to be on YOUR side of this problem.

than

"About Hamas launching rockets during the cease-fire: It's very difficult to find credible reports that they had done that."

Nonsense. You just have not looked. Trust me - I have, and I can tell you that Hamas shot rockets the first day that Israel left Gaza, they shot at least 20 rockets the first 30ish days of the ceasefire... That you don't do the due diligent research does not mean that it did not happen.

"Those launching rockets were from the Islamic Jihad movement and they were doing so in retaliation to the target assassinations that Israel was conducting throughout the 6-month cease-fire."

So, there WERE rockets then? And, you're saying that because Islamic Jihad - according to you - shot the rockets, then that this abrogates Hamas from any blame? I have news for you - Hamas runs Gaza. If Hamas says 'jump', then you know what IJ says.

"Simply, the ceasefire didn't extend to that group."

How convenient.

"Hamas was clamping down on IJ and other groups and was working on building a functioning police force to do so."

That is such a laughable suggestion that I don't even know what to say to that.

"Large-scale operations like these take extensive amounts of time which leads any logical person to believe that this was planned way in advance."

Of course it was planned far in advance. It was probably planned ten years ago. You really think that Israel does not plan for every eventualiy, you are crazy. The same way that the US government has plans for invading Mexico in case there is a reason to do so. What you are suggesting - for thsoe here that are not reading between this fellow's lines - is that Israel was never serious about the ceasefire and thus cannot be trusted.

Again, I point out that Israel is at peace currently with Egypt, Jordan and even the West Bank, right? Is Israel also planning to attack them at this point?

"Perhaps that's why they've been starving the Gaza strip for the last two years."

I know that you WANT to believe that this is true, but that does not mean that it IS true.

"I don't think the good guys would have squashed Rachel Corey."

Um, they didn't mean to kill her. Like the hundreds of times before, the bulldozer moved forward and would not stop. That's how it works. The bulldozer moves forward, and the protester stands in front of it until the bulldozer comes close and then gets out of the way and yells at the driver - who can't see anyone in front of the blade, by the way...so there was no way that he could see anyone in front of him.

"Ok I feel sorry for Ms. Corey's family, BUT SHE SAT IN FRONT OF A !@#$IN BULLDOZER! "

That's actually not true. She was standing on a pile of dirt, and she waited too long to get out of the way, and as she tried to leave, she fell over on top of the pile of dirt, and was covered by the dirt and then run over.

A tragedy, for sure, but it was surely not intentional. If it was intentional, there'd be a lot more of these protesters killed, right?

"I'll say that I believe the Palestinians have a right to do what ever is necessary to regain their land, all of it."

Great. This person is in favor of suicide bombs and missiles aimed at innocent Israelis. Got it.

Another crazy. Why don't I read the whole thing before I start responding? Responding to crazy people is makes me just as crazy as them.

"havent you ever heard of the breaking of the truce in 1948?"

Um.......you're kidding, right?

Here, allow me to impart some reality to your fantasy: "The war commenced upon the termination of the British Mandate of Palestine in mid-May of 1948 following a previous phase of civil war in 1947–1948. The war came after Arab rejection of the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (UN General Assembly Resolution 181) that would have created an Arab state and a Jewish state."

"Five of the seven countries of the Arab League at that time, namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed with Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine on the night of 14–15 May 1948. However, only the forces of Syria and Egypt invaded territory outside of the Arab section of the Partition Plan[91]. The official motives for their intervention were set out in a statement[92] of 15 May 1948 :

'the only solution of the Palestine problem is the establishment of a unitary Palestinian State, in accordance with democratic principles, whereby its inhabitants will enjoy complete equality before the law, [and whereby] minorities will be assured of all the guarantees recognised in democratic constitutional countries, ....'"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_Wa...

So, what in the world are you talking about? How did Israel break the truce? Are you crazy? Wow. I have not seen such ignorance since I saw a VH1 show about the LA metal fans who thought that the band Poison was good music.

"Plus what do you mean hamas is a terrorist group? You have to be joking, since when has it been wrong to live in freedom?"

Hey, Genius. Maybe because of the mortars, the missiles and the suicide bombs that kill innocent people in Israel? Could that be it? Remind me of the last time that 'freedom fighters' INTENTIONALLY targeted innocents. Please. Do. Would you please educate us on that one?

"where do you guys get all this crap talking about Hamas bombing innocent isralies?"

Oh. I just saw this. You're crazy. Nevermind.

"The Israeli's have been the first to strike in almost every case since the beginning of this conflict, which started with Israeli terrorist acts."

Unfortunately, you don't know what you're talking about.

Please allow me to re-print what I wrote above, since you obviously are not able to see the facts yourself:

1) Israel left Gaza UNCONDITIONALLY and UNILATERALLY on September 15th, 2005 (? I think).
2) On that day, the first rockets were fired into Israel.
3) From that day onward, rockets were fired into Israel, INTENTIONALLY targeting ONLY innocent people.
4) A cease-fire is called, and in the first month alone, almost 20 missiles are fired into Israel from Gaza, with Israel doing NOTHING in return.
5) Five months into the cease-fire, Israel finds out about a tunnel being dug into Israel and has to go into Gaza in order to destroy this tunnel.
6) Hamas uses this as a pretext to launch hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of missiles into Israel, killing dozens of people.
7) Israel tells Hamas to stop or they'll bomb the **** out of Gaza. Hamas increases bombing.
8) Israel invades Gaza...

So, you're wrong. Demonstrably wrong. Dishonest or uneducated? I'm not sure. a