Stephen great post because I like Steve above often feel condemned and or guilty about enjoying things in the world. I think sometimes even more than feeling guilty about what I do; I want to judge what others are doing, such as what they watch on television, video games they play, movies they see etc.

What guidelines do you use for you and your family to decide what is healthy and okay of the world and what becomes sinful or at least problematic?

Struth-
It is interesting you bring up depression in this discussion. I do suffer from depression and I struggle with it everyday. After my reading and studying (which most likely is far less than you) I definitely see a connection between depression and sin. I definitely see my thoughts and my response to my depression can definitely be sinful. There is definitely behavior within depression is sinful. Pride is the one that comes first to my mind. I am not thoroughly convinced that depression is ONLY a side effect of sin, but that certainly is in the mix and maybe even a big part of the mix. Depression certainly seems to be of the devil, that is for sure! Paraphrasing what you said. I did not choose to be depressed.

I have a question for you. How do you identify yourself? If I asked you, who are you? What would you say? For a long time I identified myself as a depressed Christian. One of the things I am beginning to realize is when I do that is that I am creating an idol out of my depression. The depression started becoming more important than my relationship with Jesus Christ. I think that is one of the problems with depression is that it takes over everything and becomes an idol in, of it self. Does that ever happen with being gay? The sin of making my depression an idol over my relationship with God certainly angers God.

I remember looking at the original text that Mark preached about and was thinking to myself, wow I am in trouble. I am not gay, but I spent most of my life as liar, a thief and struggle with lusting (adultery) and purity. I certainly have enough sins of my own to worry about.

I think you and I have far more in common than differences, even though I am attracted to the opposite sex and you are attracted to the same sex. You and I both have sin problems. You and I both have been elected by His grace. We both need to go to the same source to solve that sin problem and we both have to do it through faith, prayer, study, discipline, worship, obedience and glorifying Jesus Christ.

In your closing paragraph I don't think you just described the gay life, I think you described life "It's a hard life, fraught with rejection and hardship. It's also a great life, fulfilling and full of love."

By our faith, trust and obedience in God, we day by day can be transformed more into His image and isn't that what both our goals are?

Interestingly enough Challies did a review today of that book http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/the-struggle...

Mark-
I have a couple of questions for you and some observations.

John Piper talked about a man named Jim Hallet who has taught him how we should look at someone who has homosexual tendencies. I think this is really a very good observation:

=="I would encourage them to be careful not to define themselves as "homosexual." Don't say, "I am gay," or "I am a homosexual." Say, rather, "I struggle with homosexual desires." That's a very small—and huge—distinction....

He, Joe, said to me: "Don't ever let any man tell you he is a homosexual. Always correct his vocabulary, because in Christ Jesus that is not who I am. In Christ Jesus I am a new creature."== http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/ask-p...

I think we need to be careful not define people by there sexual orientation.

Here are my questions:

1. Do you feel the church at times demonize homosexuality worse than other sins? Is there a difference between hetro sexual immorality and homosexual immorality?

2. How would you minister to a friend, a parishioner who is struggling with homosexuality? How do we treat them, how do we minister to them?

3. How do we interact with those people who are homosexual who love the life style and does not like the church?

.I ask these questions not to question the truth of the bible, but to question our hearts.

Thanks Stephen for this article. I have dealt with depression or mental health problems for 36 out of the 43 years I have been alive. I have been in and out of the mental health system for most of my life. Becoming a Christian and giving my life over to Christ has been the best thing I have ever done, unluckily it doesn't mean that the battle with depression goes away.

One of the issues about depression is no one really knows what it is. Is it a physical problem? Is it a mental problem? Is it a spiritual problem? I think the answer is yes. It is all above.

Over the last several months I have been dealing with a pretty severe bout of depression. I have been struggling on why should I bother living. I am just a failure (short version, I could go on for hours until your ears bled).

I have been blessed by a pastor who does want to help me, but I know I am the first depressed person of my kind he has dealt with. While there "is nothing new under the sun" and nothing that God can't deal with, we as people don't always have the answers.

I challenged my pastor to read to "Ed Welch's book Depression: A Stubborn Darkness" and he has read parts of it (I need to get back on him to finish it). I think we are discovering together how much God is a part of this battle.

Welch does a very good job of echoing some of the thoughts that I have. He has listened to the people he has counseled. I think he has some sound counseling in his book.

I think one of the problems that people have is with depression as with any suffering people want the easy fix. We want to throw out Romans 8:28 and magically we snap out of it.

Sorry it doesn't work that way. I wish I knew how to snap myself out of it.

William Cowper who was a composer who wrote hymns such as: There Is a Fountain Filled with Blood and God moves in a mysterious way suffered from tremendous depression and is considered a Christian. It is because of the pastoral care of John Newton and of course God that he was able to keep going.
See the article John Piper wrote: http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/resou...

While Cowper never really won his battle over depression he was still able to serve the church. Spurgeon is another who suffered from depression.

I am going down a bunch of rabbit trails here and I apologize and will try to collect my thoughts. I bring Cowper up because I believe that it was having a friend that would not give up on him which helped him survive. We all need that accountability sometimes. Some more than others.

But we as Christians are not suppose to be judging we are suppose to be loving and bearing each others burdens. I think John Newton did that with William Cowper.

It is not easy to be on either side of the depression.

Lynn
Anything I say to you, please pray through. I am sorry if i am breaking what Stephen says above. But it sounds like you wants some specific thoughts. I hope that I don't sound like I am trying to fix anything because to be honest. I deal with many of the same feelings of failure and wanting to die.

It also sounds like he needs someone in the faith to be counseling him. He needs to find a pastor or a pastoral counselor to work through these issues. He needs someone to hold him accountable. He needs a mature Christian man to help him work through these things.

I would also suggest you find someone to talk to about these issues. If you have a pastor or some of the women in your church who can walk through this with you. They maybe able to help you find the right answers for yourself and to help your dad get the help he needs.

These are issues you can't do alone.... Whether you are 25 or 55.

I would echo the suggestions about getting Ed Welch's book Depression: A Stubborn Darkness. It may help see some patterns and give some thoughts on how to help your dad.

I hope this doesn't come across as trying to fix your situation.

Stephen I think I passed or is it failed this test. I am everyone of these things in a very extreme way. What have you found that has helped you not be so legalistic?