Hi John and Jeff,
Your answer and comment are very interesting and I decided to add my 2 cents.

The great proponent of the approach “ears first, mouth later” is Steve Kaufmann who fluently speaks 11 languages. Here what he writes: “Speaking fluently requires memorization of vocabulary and knowing how to say them correctly at the correct tone. In addition, one needs to learn how to use the words in a sentence structure. So far in my studies, I have forced 5000 or so words into my brain through massive listening of repeated audio in under 1 year. My study regime is 90% listening and 10% speaking.”

This advice may be useful for language-capable people – less than one in ten.
I used this advice myself in learning German. But the majority of people were turned into language-incapable because of many years of using traditional methods. For this people this advice is not productive because memorization of vocabulary (the main component of traditional methods which failed) and should not be recommended nowadays.

Antonio Graceffo in his article about ALG approach writes (about listening first): “…only if you already have a sufficient basis to understand 55-70% of what you are hearing. If you are a complete beginner, it won’t work. The TV would just become more noise.” I agree with Antonio’s concept and think that advice “ears first, mouth later” is not helpful for most of adult learners.

My method is called Language Bridge and it uses simultaneous repetition instead of consecutive repetition and recommends starting speaking immediately from the very first lessons. The difference between consecutive (traditional) repetition and simultaneous one is similar to the difference between Newtonian physics and the Theory of Relativity.

In my opinion, majority of adults suffer from cross-translation (subconscious translation into/from their native language) due to application of the traditional methods of learning ESL, when learning a language is considered as a subject and not a physical skill. The majority of adult learners consider themselves as language-incapable; their innate ability to learn a language was turned off by applying a wrong method for years.

Linguists ignore this fact and try to force the traditional methods which were developed for the minority - for linguists to be. If a teacher is not aware of this and does not know how to mitigate or eliminate the cross-translation - s/he would not be able to show great results with the majority of the Digital Learners.

That is my opinion and a foundation of the LB approach. The problem is that you can't stop cross-translation by explaining the problem; you should develop a tool that will do it automatically. The first (linguist) who did it in the past was Robin Callan who introduced double speed of speech. The second (entrepreneur) Li Yang introduced the "Crazy English" method that achieves the same goal of stopping cross-translation by shouting English sentences in a crowd. Unfortunately both Callan and Crazy English methods are obsolete nowadays because they could not be used by Digital Learners.

Jeff, you should not be frustrated by John's presentation because you could not find an answer what is the best method of second language acquisition. Nobody can answer that question with great certainty. The world is looking for an answer to that question. The necessity is the mother of invention; we have a great need for the new and best method of learning a foreign language - and it would be invented soon!

Let me comment on your statement.
“I could only speak slowly - or VERY slowly if I was also trying to apply the correct rules of grammar! However, I believe that knowing the rules acted as a kind of guide line while I was gradually building up the subconscious tools to speak fluently. “

You speak slowly because you have tried to add German to your native language and were able to speak very slowly because you were using cross-translation tool, i.e. you have thought and devised your phrases in your native language and then subconsciously translated them into German. It is a typical approach of every language student and that is why: the conventional language methods failed!

With the time you were able “building up the subconscious tools to speak fluently”, but very few people can do this because it requires faster cross-translation and is very strenuous on our mind.

Here is another famous ESL teacher who has half a million followers; A.J. Hoge writes: “grammar rules are not the key to speaking a language easily, correctly, and automatically?” http://effortlessenglishclub.com/get-the-advanced...

Read my above comment again and you will notice that my purpose was not to explain or justify your past experience in learning German but to offer a new approach which allows learning any language 4 times faster.

I understand you, Jones, it is hard to comprehend that we speak in the native or foreign language correctly not because we had studied Grammar! Language skill consists of spontaneously being able to use prefabricated phrases and phrase patterns. This is natural to the native speaker and needs to become natural to the learner of a new language. Speech is a subconscious process and your knowledge of Grammar is useless since during speech one does not have time or tool for analyzing information. The only way to real fluency is to speak without thinking. Visit my web site and you will find there more information on this topic.
Regards,
Arkady

Dear John,
I agree with your description of the problem. Many practical linguists came to a similar conclusion. Here is what Chris Moses, President of Flow English, writes:
“Excellence in English speaking and listening will never come from textbooks. It won't come from grammar lessons. It won't come from vocabulary lists. In fact it can't. It's just not possible! Why? Language learning is very different from other kinds of learning. We can't learn English deeply with the same habits and methods we use for math, science, or history.”

You stress on the advantages of focusing on input based activities in language learning. In my opinion, I-N-P-U-T is important but not the decisive factor. The proof: there are thousands of free, innovative, fun-filled, game-like, inspiring, interesting INPUTS on Internet and they are all underused and did not impact considerably the situation with the problem of learning English fast.

I think that we need a no-grammar, no-memorization and zero-translation method of learning English; but first of all we should determine the main features of the new method. Here are mine suggestions:
•Cross-translation is the main barrier in learning ESL and we need admit the problem and provide tools for its solution.
•The new method should provide environment in which the images of word blocks or situations are directly linked to English without use of native language. Zero-translation is the key to success and the new method should implement it automatically on every step.
•Fulfillment of the above steps will result in formation of the English language speech center in the brain.
•Explanation of the new method of learning ESL should be localized in major native languages. Without explanation in native language it would be impossible to develop new learning habits in both adult learners and teachers.
•The new method of learning ESL fast should be very cheap. The drastic drop in price could be achieved by introducing blended learning that combines localized self-study software and public online classes with 10-20 students.

Those suggestions are for open discussion and it would be nice if you will host this discussion on your web site.

Arkady

Rosetta Stone uses no English-language instruction—in fact, no instruction at all. There are no vocabulary lists, conjugation tables, or translation drills. Instead, it mimics language immersion by associating language with pictures. Rosetta Stone doesn't put it this way, but the program asks you to learn like a child.

Is this possible at all? I doubt. Rosetta Stone is better than other methods but still is rather ineffective because this approach does not change the habit of subconscious translation into the native language which in adults inevitably hinders formation of the new language speech center in the brain. In my opinion, the method that does not address explicitly the problem of cross-translation could not be successful.

To learn as a child you need tools that will give you a possibility to turn off the habit of cross-translation automatically and build a new language speech center in the brain starting from the first lesson. This concept is based on a scientific fact: adults who learn a foreign language and speak it fluently develop a new language speech center in the brain.

What concerns the Rosetta Stone Totale I agree that this program does a terrific job of immersing you in a language and may be the next best thing to living in a country, surrounded by native speakers. But the pricey Totale is not the ultimate answer to one billion of potential customers in the next 10 years. Here is why.
The Table contains statistical data for the RS web site from Alexa:

Traffic Rank
18,708

3 month change 0.09%

Users from different countries:
66.2% United States
3.2% United Kingdom
2.9% Canada
2.1% India
2.0% China
1.7% Germany
1.2% Japan
1.2% Cambodia
1.1% Australia
1.0% Russia
1.0% Mexico
0.9% Pakistan
0.8% Israel

Age population mostly represented among Rosetta Stone visitors:

35-44(approx. one third)
55-64(approx. one fourth)
65 (approx. one third)

Conclusion: The pricey Rosetta Stone program is designed and used mainly by professionals and college graduates in the USA who are interested in foreign languages, mainly as a hobby. Most visitors of Rosetta Stone web site connect from Home and Have a College degree.

The main contenders for the leading role in the Global economy (China, India, South Korea, etc.) are under-represented among visitors of Rosetta Stone web site, although namely these countries contain the major portion of one billion ESL learners who need fluency in ESL. Practical knowledge of ESL can be the deciding factor in finding a better job or getting a promotion. They need a modern method of learning ESL fast. Rosetta Stone is definitely not providing the answers to the vexing question how to learn ESL fast and cheap.

Dear John,
I would like to comment on your advice: “Use a spaced repetition system. If you review material at certain intervals, you can better control what gets into long-term memory.”

Paul Pimsleur pioneered the practical application of spaced repetition theory to language learning in 1967. In his research, Dr. Pimsleur discovered how long students remembered new information and at what intervals they needed to be reminded of it. The long history of application is related to memorization of vocabulary. In the framework of traditional methods when learning a foreign language was considered as a subject and information that you should put into long-term memory this theory was excellent: it helped learners to remember words.

Nowadays this theory is obsolete:
•In the new method we don’t learn separate words; we learn phrases instead and do it by simultaneous repetition. A learner performs three actions at the same time – listening, reading and repeating. Simultaneous repetition turns off cross-translation (the main barrier in learning a language) and is instrumental in formation of a new language speech center in the brain. In other words, we train the skill of speaking subconsciously without memorization. That is why spaced repetition is not needed anymore.

Digital Learners need emotional involvement, interesting texts and unwavering teacher’s support and guidance in changing the learning habits. They need a multimedia, multisensory, constant interactivity, and personalized online learning environment that could be used by millions if not dozen millions of adult learners 24/7. The new learning environment would be phenomenally adaptable allowing online or offline use along with self-training, face to face, group study or combination of the above. It could be supplemented with a concise version of the program on any PDA, Smartphone or MP3 player.

The patented Language Bridge software and methodology, which I offer to you and all your students free of charge, could be considered as a prototype of the new method. It is fully functional and ready for use; however, I am fully aware that bringing it to the marketing stage will require complete redesigning. Together we can accomplish this task in a short time.

I have a crazy idea: to donate to you 1000 copies of Language Bridge software to learn ESL, which is localized for Chinese speakers, for free distribution through your school in Taipei. It should serve as an alternative to those 20 million followers who learn English by Crazy Method, founded by Li Yang Cliz, as described by Jay Walker: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jay_walker_on_...

What you think?

Sincerely yours,
Arkady Zilberman

Dear John,
You expanded your presentation from 29 to 95 slides - and I have raised the value of your presentation from excellent to outstanding! I was reading it twice with a kind of excitement that I usually observe while reading a brilliant thriller. It was thought provoking too, and here are some thoughts that came to my mind when reading your presentation.

“Traditional language education doesn't work. But why? One major reason is that ... learning a language is a subconscious process.”

I suggest adding a few other reasons:
•Traditional method of learning a language results in addition of a foreign language to the native language as additional information. You observed such learners: they can read, write and even speak slowly in the target language (by translating from their native language to the learned language), but they don’t understand natural speech. In other words, they are talking slowly and consciously by using cross-translation. Very few people can be successful in this strenuous process of speaking by applying fast translation in their head.
•They need a new method which should be drastically different from the traditional methods of learning/teaching ESL which are notoriously ineffective. This new no-grammar no-memorization and zero-translation method of teaching/learning English should incorporate a special tool for turning off subconscious translation into/from the native language, which is the main barrier to acquiring fluency in English.
•The new method will be instrumental in formation of the new English language speech center in the brain in addition to the established native language speech center.
•Written English and spoken English are, in fact, quite different. Most students learn written English. Traditional Textbooks teach written English-- even most "English Conversation" Textbooks. But the new generation of Digital Learners needs to learn spoken English to become more successful in the Global economy. So, the main objective of the non-traditional method should be adjusted to the new demand.
•The non-traditional method will blend different teaching methods: self-training online and off-line, face-to-face and group lessons online and offline, and possibility to select the training lessons according to the students’ needs and objectives. Students will have unprecedented control of their learning environment that will include electronic dictionary in their native language, self-testing and testing by teachers and peers, and option of adding new lessons of their choice.
•The non-traditional method will allow Digital Learners to use the new technology anytime, anywhere. Another advantage – in any type of activity according to the new method learners will speak four times more than in any other traditional school.

Arkady Zilberman

John, I am looking forward to talking to you about LB fundamentals and our cooperation. Together we may create the foundation for the ultimate method for Online learning that would be based on the concept: "Learning ESL is a physical skill and should be trained or learned and not taught with account of new characteristics of Digital Learners who appeared recently on the Global market."

I want to repeat: Language Bridge self-study software for learning ESL by Russian, Chinese or Spanish speakers is free for ESL teachers or educators - simply email your request with a note which version you would like to download. I recommend to discuss some details of this patented approach with me before you start evaluating it to avoid the innate temptation to compare it with your past experience or knowledge.

Kirsten, I would be happy to participate in an interview with you. I want to remind you that my Language Bridge self-study software for learning ESL by Russian, Chinese or Spanish speakers is free for ESL teachers or educators - simply email your request with a note which version you would like to download. I recommend to discuss some details of this patented approach with me before you start evaluating it to avoid the innate temptation to compare it with your past experience or knowledge.
I will be on vacation from September 4th till September 15th in California so my email and Skype will still be operational, however discussing the details of the Interview is better to do after I return home.
Thanks, Arkady

Kirsten, I definitely plan to attend your conference on Thursday.

Here is my mission statement:
http://www.language-bridge.com/index.php?option=c...

Here is my previous interview done by Torsten who planned to complete it but did not have time or interest. May be you would be interested to make your own interview?
http://www.english-test.net/esl-cafe/37/index.htm...

Regards,
Arkady