Deusvolt

Deusvolt

-67p

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17 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: Spencer: ... · 0 replies · +1 points

I have two English translations of the Q'uran and although Islamists and Arabists would contend that I would not get the full spiritual benefits or understanding of it if I do not read it in Arabic, I think I understood its contents enough to get a reasonable appreciation (and alas, also depreciation) of it. First off, I was frustrated that it wastes a lot words and hence, my time, by its superfluous praises of God. I know we also find such things in the Old Testament or the Hebrew Scriptures but the Q'uran really goes over the top. What kind of omnipotent, self-sufficient God would dictate such fulsome praises of Him/Itself?

And yes, I readily noted the unkind prescriptions it has against non-believers and women; its blatant discriminatory application of justice and primitive tribal notions of exclusivity tied to religion.

These being said, I must say that the Hebrew Scriptures are not free from the same defects and many religious historians conclude that Islam copied these prescriptions from ancient Judaism.

Those who believe like Marcion that the Old Testament must have come from a vindicative tribal (as opposed to universal) God may also conclude that the inspiration of both the Hebrew Scriptures and the Q'uran may have come from the same diety.

While genocidal massacres and enslavement of whole tribes/nations seemed to be a common practice in the conduct of wars in ancient and fairly recent times (even just in yesteryears) , I cannot help but notice that the Hebrews were the only people (to my knowledge, anyway) to practice genocide (extended even to domesticated animals) and enslavement of people they considered outsiders with the astounding claim that such were sanctioned even with explicit directions by a kind and loving God from whom they had also received instructions to be "a light among the nations."

I stand with civilized and moral people in saying that I am in complete disapproval of the horrendous savagery by which some Islamists and Jihadists pursue the interests of their nations and co-religionists. Their actions are immoral and can never be justified. Neither should their gravity be diminished by citing mitigating and extenuating circumstances. But in the same breath, I cannot abide the expression of grievance by Jews and some Christians when some people compare atrocities commited by Israeli forces and authorities against the Palestinian people to the crimes of the Nazis because allegedly, the actions of the latter are not "morally equivalent" to the actions of the former. Well, the Nazis destroyed and also "expropriated" (stole) the houses and properties of Jews in German-occupied Europe. Israeli forces routinely (since 1948) bulldoze houses and mosques of Palestinians (some of them centuries old). Some Israelis continue to live and build in lands (in the West Bank, for example) recognized by the international community as belonging to Palestinians. Is there no moral equivalence between the thievery of a Nazi and the thievery of an Israeli citizen? What part of "Thou Shalt not Steal" do these Israelis not understand? Or, do those people who object to the absence of "moral equivalence" between injustice committed by Nazis and and those perpetrated by some Israelis focusing merely on the scope and magnitude of the crimes? But the Decalogue does not mention nor give any quantitative values at all. Or are we to interpret the Commandments quantitatively meaning to say that it is all right to steal a dozen houses but not a thousand houses. Is it evil to kill people by the millions but it can be overlooked if you just dispose of a few hundreds? I believe it was precisely this kind of dichotomous or two-faced thinking that led to the slippery slope that the Germans found themselves careening down when they followed Hitler and caused many of them to participate or at least turn a blind eye to his absolutely despicable policies and morally reprehensible actions.

17 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: Melanie P... · 11 replies · -9 points

I agree with the authors of this site that Muslims should learn to re-interpret their scriptures just as Christians and even many Jews (mostly reformed) have re-interpreted theirs in order to conform to a more humane, civil, urbane world outlook. After all, the Hebrew Scriptures which Christians call the Old Testament have just as cruel and barbaric prescriptions as the Q'uran. Episcopalian Bishop Spong calls them "the terrible texts" that justify genocide (of the peoples of Canaan), slavery, maltreatment of women and the promulgation of "laws" that even the Romans (no paragons of kindness themselves) dubbed "lex talionis."

While I am a Christian myself, a Catholic, I do not subscribe to a literal interpretation of the Bible and subscribe to all of its prescriptions. My conscience won't allow me to submit much less to implement all of its examples some of which are horrendous and should be affronts to any just and humane person. My faith teaches me that I should believe in those things in the Bible that are necessary for my salvation. It is not necessary for my salvation for me to believe that it was just to massacre the Amalekites, to enslave non-Hebrew peoples or to abuse women by treating them like property.

While I am required to accept that the Bible was written by hagiographers inspired by the Holy Spirit, I nevertheless realize that the writers of the Bible were humans and thus injected some of their faulty human perspectives into the Scriptures. Any reader can detect some (even many) of their biases, parochialism and selfish narrow tribalism in many of their writings. These I absolutely reject just as I do not wish that the babies of my enemies "be dashed upon the rocks."

Were the lands that fundamentalist Jews claim as their own really promised by The Lord to them for all time? Remember that there was supposed to be a Covenant and covenants can be broken. Was it broken? Was there really any promise or was just that another fiction created by the scripture writers? Or did they misunderstand the message of the Holy Spirit. Remember that the Lord Himself said that our mind is not like His and He does not think they way we do.

It is not easy for me to ask this final question and indeed, it pains me to ask it but for the sake of
fraternal correction and justice, I must ask it of the Jews living and building illegal settlements on the West Bank:

What part of : "Thou shalt not steal" don't you understand?