To belabor it further (I love examples), I use an example of a fireman. How can you tell that someone is a fireman? He can tell you, sure. "I am a fireman". Even so, you know more by what they wear, how they work, the siren's on their truck, and that they actually go out and put out fires. If the person is good at being a fireman ... they never actually have to tell you that they are one - they just are.

This is the direction that I think that we should move towards - that whole "they will know we are Christians by our love" idea.

Now you went and got my gears turning ... and I had so much else to do today!

I am with you on that one Ron, for sure.

I think that what you said is what we should approach, that the "mind of Christ" isn't neccessarily something that we try to explain or do all the time, it becomes more who we are. In regards to your statements and posts, I think we as Christians do it to ourselves as a community to "explain ourselves" and outline our theology.

It's like this. If we understand that we are stewards of God's creation, it becomes an "understood" fact. I know I don't constantly report that I am spending "God's money" when I pay my electric bill, but I want to live a life that it is an "understood fact" found in my view of money.

Or like when we comfort someone in trouble, that we don't have to always say "God's comfort be with you", because it is, encased in our arms as we embrace them.

Timogle,

While I agree with you in that God is the ultimate accountability partner, I think that Ron has some strong points about what part we play in the formula of change. When Jesus said "follow me", the disciples didn't magically become mind controlled by God ... no, they chose to follow, and then started acting in their lives (not always perfectly) in a way that examples the action of "following God".

Many times I have worked with clients (and friends) that cry out - why hasn't God taken this from me? (or changed me?), and when you look at thier lives, they have not changed actions that continue to lead them down dark paths. Is their faith weak? Or their action? (Having nothing to do with grace/salvation - but more a statement of disciple-like living).

So yes, we know what the Lord requires of us, and we are also taught to remove planks. I find that when I am troubled about something, angry with someone, that the problem is very rarely the other person or the situation, it is instead somewhere on my side of the playing field and if I am approaching it in the way that is right.