IntenseDebate - zenhombre

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Queen hosts Martin McG... · 0 replies · +5 points

Very encouraging.

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - The Queen and Martin M... · 1 reply · +4 points

One must decide if what they are witnessing is authentic (I do), but if a person has genuinely changed and now proposes a healthy way forward, how is that something to not support? Martin makes the case for himself. It is obvious some believe he is not genuine, but would those same people hold that a person cannot change and should never be given an opportunity to demonstrate such a change? What a hopeless world that would present.

I support hope for healthy change.

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Royal family to join I... · 0 replies · +4 points

kp could have said "do not include Scotland in the reference to "our two countries". Indeed, there should be two islands and four countries.

Auch, I care about any country still under the yoke of an imperialist. There are many around this planet. Wales, too, has a Nationalist Party - Plaid Cymru. I care about Scotland because part of my family is from Scotland with relatives still there.

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - \'There will be a unit... · 0 replies · -1 points

Ciaran says, "I envisage a future struggle in which we bring the respectable minority along the road of political action; strike action, civil disobedience, the vast array of methods capable of putting pressure on the state. And we can take back Ireland using those methods. The question is, will the state allow us to do that without reacting violently. If we were to pursue our objectives peacefully would the British state step in violently? I believe they may."

These methods, as proposed by Henry David Thoreau and carried out by Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. work only to the extent that it is understood the State will respond with violence, and the people do not reciprocate. The atrocities of the State are exposed in the presence of non-violent resistance. The World observes and is appalled by the brutality of the State. If the response to the State is return violence, the message of human injustice is lost. Violence takes center stage. It is not easy to sustain effective resistance, which is why we do not witness it very often in the world.

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Sour atmosphere on the... · 0 replies · +7 points

I am not interested in engaging you in a debate concerning the merits of one interpretation or another. My ONLY concern in this string was making sure people didn't confuse facts with conclusions. As long as we are clear about that, I'm good to stand back and watch you and YY hash it out. As far as I am concerned, you two are covering the territory splendidly, and readers can draw their own conclusions. Thank you both for your service.

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Sour atmosphere on the... · 2 replies · +10 points

"If you can examine the available evidence and reach a different conclusion to me I would love to hear it. Even if you could explain how people might reach a different conclusion I would love to hear that also."

I have no interest in speculating about the future. My interest is in supporting the Rules of Evidence. Of course, I do have a preference about how the future turns out, but that was not my concern here. I have revealed my preferences in others posts, and no doubt will again.

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Sour atmosphere on the... · 4 replies · +13 points

8B, I decided to say more about the fact that present trends never continue.

Let's say that I grant you a valid interpretation of the data and that a particular outcome has a high probability of not occurring. To the degree that this may be a valid interpretation is dependent on past human choices remaining static through time. Do I detect an implied message that therefore, people who desire a different outcome should just give up? The future has been fixed in time?

Now let's say that there is a group of people who are dedicated to Outcome B. The data appears to support that Outcome B is highly improbable and that Outcome A is more probable. Can you imagine that those people will decide, "Oh my, we may as well give up and take up knitting". Or, might they collect, cooperate, collaborate and implement new, different strategies to inspire people into action, change the arc of trends to something new/different, with a resulting change in outcome.

This is an emotional issue for many people. If someone comes along and and indicates that their present trending behavior and choices will not result in their desired outcome, they may be inspired to alter their trending behavior and choices to effect their desired outcome.

The underdog can become very motivated.

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Sour atmosphere on the... · 11 replies · +12 points

If you are using data to propose a probability for specific outcome, that is an appropriate use of data. If you identify your probable outcome as a fact, that is a misuse of data and an unsupportable claim. As long as you do not claim that your conclusions are identical to facts, I have no concern with your claims. It is a common pass-time for people to debate and claim that their proposed probable outcome is more likely than their opponent's proposed probable outcome. Keep your claims clean and I'll enjoy the debate.

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Sour atmosphere on the... · 31 replies · +14 points

In support of what I see as YY's main point vs 8B, I have posted elsewhere recently that Data and conclusions about that Data are not identical. Data is factual, but the interpretation of that Data is not factual. That an object has fallen is a fact. My conclusion about why it fell is not a fact. Two reasonable people, reviewing the same Data, can draw two different conclusions. 8B's error is to propose that based on observed data, his conclusion must be correct (true). Science doesn't work this way. Conclusions are always inconclusive awaiting new/different data yet to be observed.

Concerning 8B's desire to prove the future - not possible. Predictions about the future are based, in part, on the idea that present trends will continue. The observed reality (to date) of this Universe is that present trends never continue, therefore predicting the future is, at best, an enjoyable pastime. It would appropriate for someone to say, concerning their conclusions, "This is what I hope for".

Saoirse!

12 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - A history of our last ... · 1 reply · 0 points

Erin, I do not see how my statements misrepresent Irish history, but if I have wrongly perceived your position concerning the relationship between Ireland and the UK, then I apologize. I would be enthusiastic to accept that your posting name indicates of love and deep respect for Ireland and a desire for this island - Ireland to last forever.

A few thoughts about the concept of understanding: having knowledge of data/facts and drawing conclusions about those data/facts is not the same thing. The formal definition of inductive reasoning - the foundation for scientific advancement is - all of your data may be correct and it still remains possible to draw the wrong conclusion. The concept of understanding extends beyond data/facts to the realm of conclusions. I will always be happy to be presented new data. I will always be happy to hear about someone's conclusions about those data. I may not always be willing to agree with someone's conclusions.

Peace/Saoirse

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