Thanks for this Kathy! It's some really helpful and thoughtful information

Mike

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Sorry for the brevity and any misspellings as this was"sent from my iPad"

Thanks Doug. That's a good word. I haven't updated that in many years, so some of them probably don't even exist anymore either. Do you have any blog recommendations?

Mike

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yes it's short & it may be misspelled because it was "Sent from my iPhone"

while i'm certainly not looking to start a blog argument on this, since it's not the best forum for this kind of discussion, I would like to simply offer that it's maybe not quite as simple as that. The verses immediately before the 1 Tim 2 passage say that men should pray with arms lifted, women should not have elaborate hairstyles, gold, pearls or expensive clothes. And the verses after say that women are saved through childbearing. To be consistent in interpretation, let's at least expect men to always pray with arms lifted, women to not have gold wedding rings, and recognize that salvation for women is offered to those who have born children.

I simply offer that to say, it's not quite as simple as plucking those few verses out of their context for that passage as well as out of the context of the rest of the New Testament.

I'm willing to acknowledge that my interpretation might be wrong. But, I'm also willing to acknowledge that it's not a simple issue to interpret.

Hi Everyone,
just a few brief notes, since this seems to be getting shared in several places and many of you are coming here, and we don't know each other, we don't have a shared history, this is the first thing you're hearing from me, and so for some it's causing some assumptions. So, just a few brief notes...

This was not meant to be a biblical apologetic for women in ministry. It was simply a reflection on contrasting experiences that I had this week and a personal reaction to them.

Although I'm not quoting Scripture here, because that was not the purpose of this, this view point, which is shared by many people and scholars, is based on my study of the Scripture. There are plenty of places where that argument is being made, and I don't feel the need to do that here. I have, however, taught a class on it in my local church in addition to personal research and writing.

Finally, we may end up after both studying the same Scriptures, with different interpretations of them. That doesn't mean that either one of us is simply by-passing the Scriptures to try and "keep up with the times". It means that the same thing is happening today that has happened for the 2,000 years of church history - we are reading the same texts and drawing different conclusions on them. Because of my study of the Scriptures, I have convictions and passions that you may disagree with. That doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore them or be less passionate about them, but it does mean that I'm going to create space to disagree with my brothers and sisters who have ended up in a different place than I have. We can have unity without conformity and we can we can disagree while also assuming the best in the other person.

Hope that clears a few things up.

Thanks for stopping by!

Mike

Aaron, you've got to come to my office to get it. You take a trek down here and I'll give you a book and buy you lunch!

Confused,

This wasn't meant to be a biblical argument, as much as a reflection of my experiences this week. I don't think it's quite that clear in the Scriptures.

Our Elders have written a brief position paper to explain how we came to that place. You can download it here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uca171nlrbyaw8z/Women%2...

Beyond that, I would highly recommend Scot McKnight's book, "Blue Parakeet", which is not a book about women in the church as much as it is about how we read the Bible. For a more scholarly work on that, William Webb's book, "Slaves, Women and Homosexuals" is incredibly helpful. The first book I read that got me to begin challenging previous assumptions I held was Stanley Grentz and Denise Kjesbo's book, "Women in the Church"

Hope those can be helpful

Uno...you're a stud!

I get what you're saying and because I trust your pushback will take some time today to examine my motives.

But honestly, I don't feel that my motive is "I'm better than" or I'm looking down on. I honestly had experiences this week that caused me to grieve for the women who it had happened to, and as a result to grieve the loss it was to those who missed their contribution. That created a stark contrast for me when I heard Rachel preach this weekend.

Their voices aren't being heard, are being dismissed, they're being called names, etc. I've done something in my immediate context and feel like it's time to not be passive anymore beyond that.

Thanks for the challenge brother...I will honestly take time today to examine my motives

Mike, there's plenty of the discussion happening around those passages, and I've been a part of those. I was not trying to write a biblical argument for it, as several others have written that well and I've taught it before. Instead, was reflecting on my experience this week of seeing the church miss out on significant voices and then having the chance to hear one of those voices this weekend.

If you're interested in reading more, I've got a copy of Blue Parakeet by Scot McKnight sitting in my office with your name on it.

thanks April. So sorry about what happened with your submission...

I've been challenged recently that I can't just let the women in that position be the ones speaking up for themselves, but as a male in power I have a responsibility as well. Lets help make it better

Thanks Christy. Appreciate it. It's easy to discount things that are true because of misuse and inappropriate use. Appreciate you!