Listening to Craig T Nelson on GB made me think of something...Craig is apparently ok with going to jail for not paying income taxes, we all know that the top producers in this country pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes in this country...If the majority of those people stopped paying taxes, how would the government pay anyone to go after them? They wouldn't, because they couldn't. Without that source of funding the government would be almost immediately crippled, the only thing Uncle Sam would be able to do is beg "please come back to the table, please!"...

...Not a bad idea.

Listening to Craig T Nelson on GB made me think of something...Craig is apparently ok with going to jail for not paying income taxes, we all know that the top producers in this country pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes in this country...If the majority of those people stopped paying taxes, how would the government pay anyone to go after them? They wouldn't, because they couldn't. Without that source of funding the government would be almost immediately crippled, the only thing Uncle Sam would be able to do is beg "please come back to the table, please!"...

...Not a bad idea.

And thus I say that's a god I do not want in my life...That's an arrogant, self loving, narcissistic god.

"This generation seems to want to degrade a God that too many believe in. Not fair"

That makes my point for me.

Moving on, all I'm saying is when we debate say abortion we need to have reason against it besides "it's a sin"...when we debate gay marriage we need more reason and logic than "it's a sin" etc. When you (because I support it) evolution we need more than "the bible says god created the world in 7 days and adam and eve" etc...we're being dismissed because we're not using reason and logic in our arguments, we're using god. It's getting us no where fast.

just remember, YOU think it's a falsehood, not everyone. I DO believe it's thanks to essentially science that we are seeing fewer and fewer religious people in the world. I don't think I've ever claimed that due to the increase in agnosticism or atheism that thus god doesn't exist because guess what, regardless, I don't think he exists so claiming that would be kind of stupid.

So, not sure what your trying to get at there.

Well, my points have been that a belief in a god is fine but the foundation of the political system we endorse, those principles etc are completely sound and reasonable on their own and when we toss god into the mix our audience decreases in massive numbers as a result...if we want our political views to survive we need to do what it takes to support that cause because it's not just about economics, laws, policies etc it's also about protecting the right to worship any god you choose and if we lose our preferred political system your (I'm an atheist) rights to worship will be lost with it.

I'll qualify the "know" part just to make you happy...just as others "know" god exists (zero proof, zero evidence etc) I "know" that evolution is correct (difference is I have facts and evidence (albeit yes, not complete) to support what I "know".

Happy?

For your 2nd point, the bible purports creation in 7 days...we know how planets form now, it doesn't take only seven days. We also know from science that life doesn't pop into existence out of nothing to a full fledged thinking feeling walking jumping human being as the bible specifies. These are just two of the reasons (of dozens or more?) that evolution contradicts the bible.

so why bother trying to do something that will work, just give up and let them have their way...got it.

as do I, that's why I will always admit it. . .:-)

Thanks for the 2nd chance kind response, rare online.

"I do hope, however, that you are not equating religion with stupidity"

Close, but I know far too many incredibly intelligent people that are deeply religious to make that mistake.

"Have you considered the consequences if you're wrong and it's not just a fairytale?"

Careful, you're diving into territory where a few posts from now I can get downright belligerent and insulting :-) TRYING NOT TO THOUGH (but I did lose it on someone earlier and wish I hadn't).

Anywho, your question is one I've addressed in other threads here and a few times. Presenting the question of what if I'm wrong to me comes across as the person asking the question is placing a bet (their life) on a roulette table. I don't think the fear of what could happen to me if I'm wrong is remotely close to a valid reason to live your life worshiping something you otherwise would not have believed in. Additionally I live my life honestly, fairly, I'm kind to others (see disclaimer in parenthesis at the end), I'm probably have more of a backbone, sense of ethics, integrity honesty and trust than most religious people I know (not knocking them, just saying I'm REALLY a good person) and ultimately if THAT is not good enough in gods eyes to grant me into heaven if I am wrong, than that is not a god I want in my life. Make sense?

(Disclaimer: well, except on the occasion of ripping someone a new one for ticking me off on a forum, in which case again, I often, but not always regret - again, practicing here)