IntenseDebate - lukeprog

15 years ago @ the Jesus Manifesto - From Faith to Common S... · 0 replies · +1 points

I think I understand the argument now and I think it is unsound, due to many false premises. Also, it has never been presented as a valid argument.

>> You can't tell me that they saw a typhoon and they thought "Ohh well, it must be a higher being!" <<

Yes, I can. This happens all the time. You severely underestimate the human imagination.

>> wolves and dolphins don't have ANY sort of mystical hierarchy <<

Yes they do. For example, please see the superstitious pigeon.

>> People can't even prove with absolute certainty how old the Universe is, but you want the proof of God??? <<

I don't want proof of God. I want the exact same kinds of reasons I would want for anything else. I want evidence that outweighs the improbability of the claim given our background knowledge. If you tell me there is a Buick in your garage, a simple check of your garage would satisfy me. If you tell me there is an invisible dragon in your garage who is not detectable by any physical means and yet he has magical powers and can physically affect things all around the world and read millions of minds simultaneously and grants you magical wishes and has created alternate non-physical realms as possible destinies for your immortal, invisible soul... well then I'm going to need some pretty decent evidence to believe such a thing, and I'm right to ask for it.

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 1 reply · +1 points

Found it! I've added that link to my earlier preview of the BCNT.

I haven't read your work yet but I've read summaries of your arguments against evolutionary morality and I thought, "Yup, I agree with all that!"

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 0 replies · +1 points

Agreed! And I often lament that none of these fine atheistic philosophers have also been mastering debating skills their entire lives like Craig has, so there really is no atheistic counterpart to Craig. He is in a class by himself.

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 0 replies · +1 points

It\'s just a word confusion. Look up \"atheism\" in a dictionary. It just means \"no God belief,\" like a-unicornism would mean \"no unicorn belief.\" A-unicornism is not a worldview either; it\'s a belief about a single thing.

There are many atheistic worldviews, of course - worldviews which include no god belief. Secular humanism, deep ecology, metaphysical naturalism, extropianism, etc.

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 0 replies · +1 points

What the heck is up with those slashes appearing before my apostrophe's? Stupid IntenseDebate. Is there no comments system that works?

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 0 replies · +1 points

Indeed. If the Biblical Yahweh existed I would condemn him a thousand times as an insane, evil tyrant for his evil acts, bumbling incompetence, and horrific doctrines.

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 3 replies · +1 points

vision,

I did not say that sexier debaters would be more convincing.

I agree that Craig\'s arguments fail, but at least he presents valid (but unsound) arguments and argues according to the rules of philosophical logic. Hitchens, it appears, has never read a logic textbook.

Of course Shermer makes some great points in that video, but if someone wants to attack Craig\'s cosmological argument they must realize it is a logically valid argument and then attack the premises, or else attack logic itself.

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 1 reply · +1 points

I\'ve read John\'s book and follow his blog. Good stuff. Of course there is no atheist I agree with all the time - and that it partly because I am simply wrong about lots of stuff and I just don\'t know it yet because people haven\'t explained it to me in just the right way (whether in books or blog comments or conversations).

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 3 replies · +1 points

That sounds fishy to me, but I'd like to read more. Care to give your name or link to your work, muddle?

15 years ago @ Common Sense Atheism - The Craig-Hitchens Debate · 5 replies · +1 points

Yes, I've always wanted to read the Alston paper. But how is this view compatible with human life having intrinsic moral value? If human life has intrinsic moral value, then it has objective moral value apart from anything outside it - including the nature of God, or any value imparted on human life by God. And yet Craig claims that without God, there are no objective moral values in the universe. These claims seem incompatible to me.

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