Being in a casual guild, I get all types. I've got raiders I suspect will leave us to go "more hardcore" eventually to people who don't even understand what raiding is and we've had to teach. Some of those find it suits their taste, some don't. I've got a "must cap Valor points nao" druid friend and several people who still don't have a valor point to their name.

Valor points are actually less of my concern than practice for some of the people in their desired role. I have a few people musing over going healing. They have all 346 ilevel gear for healing or better but haven't run a random of any kind as a healer - guild group or no.

I completely agree that capping Valor points is not for everyone. Heck, it's not for me every week. And I'm insanely glad they put in the 7 runs per week rather than one per day. I never could run one every single day... too much else going on.

How we tell if someone is raid ready varies. We've discovered a lot of talent in our retro runs. Sometimes we're short one person and we'll pull in an unknown and see how they do.

The negative attitudes are actually quite few... but the few... ugh.

And no, gear acquisition can make up a minor amount of what someone lacks in skill but skill is the much larger factor. I believe my hubby did the math that Gear is 10%, Raid buffs is 30% and Skill makes up the remaining 60%... I could have my numbers off there.

Um, no.

I have people who want to raid who refuse to gear themselves, refuse to practice or learn how to play, refuse to even read the fights and yet show up and expect to raid doing 5k dps. Those are the ones who "expect to be handed epics". If you're reread my first post, I in no way make a direct [or any intentional] association between capping VP and "expecting to be handed epics"

There are plenty of players who don't cap who are doing appropriate dps/tanking/healing with what they have.

In fact my expectation as laid out in my first post was that "I DO expect those who raid or with illusions of raiding to run an instance or two a week at least". An instance or two is nowhere near capping. Perhaps I should have added "or make some effort in some way".

I expect people to put forth an effort. Whether that effort is grinding VPs and gear, or helping others do so, helping gem/enchant gear, making epics for others, making cauldrons for a raid, cooking food, or a very minimum of reading the basics of the fight(s) we're going to do, I still expect to see some effort.

Showing up, ungemmed, unenchanted, with some easily replaceable greens/gear not appropriate to spec, not having read the fights and with a bad attitude is just inconsiderate and rude. That kind of entitlement is what I said annoys me and what I see becoming more and more common.

I honestly don't appreciate the attitude I'm perceiving here that expecting my people to make some kind of effort is unreasonable. In my opinion, not making an effort is really and truly "doing it wrong". Not capping Valor as a raider? Unless you have a sorry attitude [ie: the one I state in the previous paragraph], you're probably actually doing it right.

I wasn't weighing judgements on your situation or your guild. I was giving my perspective as a GM for my guild.

I capped the first week, got about half the points last week and will cap on two toons this week [with luck]. So eh...

But anyway, as a GM myself [of a casual guild that raids], I DO expect those who raid or with illusions of raiding to run an instance or two a week at least and most people do. I have a handful that cap - ironically mostly people in our ten man raid. There are more who run randoms as they take a notion - some pug, some put together guild groups.

What frustrates me are the ones who refuse to do randoms, refuse to help anyone else, then show up for raids and expect to be handed epics.

Regarding Point Number 1 - As a tank, I watch your mana like you watch my health bar [I have a healer as well so familiar with the role]. I'm going to keep an eye on it and pause to give you a chance to drink or if you're really low - ask if you need a mana moment. Don't tell me off because I do it - it's not a slight on you... I'm supposed to be watching your mana. No, I don't know when you need to mana up or when you can keep going because of divine hymn, shadowfiend, innvervate, or if your boomkin/kitty buddy innervated you. An "I'm good" is sufficient if I ask. [You have no idea how much snarking this invites from healers nowadays - and if I don't watch mana, I get screamed at by the healer who needs me to full stop everything and ask them to drink before they'll start drinking - those actually exist].

As the tank I'm typically expected to be the leader and orchestrate the foundation for a good dungeon run/raid. Part of that is keeping an eye on your mana and making sure you have time to drink when you need it.

Also, telling me "Pull more, faster faster gogogo," isn't really effective either. Whispering me or saying politely in party something like "If you feel comfortable pulling more, I'm good". Also don't be surprised if I ramp up rather than instantly do bigger pulls. Just as you have to see how I function [cooldown usage/hardiness], I need to see how you function [mana efficiency, etc].

Gotta always watch for this, but we all made a difference. We have to remember that next time - whether it's regarding Blizzard or something else.

the gold and xp can't be beat. I won't gather the gold on all my 80s but I took a few lowbies on other servers through a bunch of the fires just for the xp. It's 2 weeks out of a year and it's a great time to focus on alting.

I got it done, but it is definitely my least favorite "holiday" achievement :/
My recent post How to make the PVE’ers do what you want in PVP… [or what worked on me]

Tab 1 and 2 are swap meet - random anything - lots of holiday items, BC stuff, etc.

Tab 3 is donations - only officers can withdraw and we spread it to other tabs

Tab 4 is skill up mats - all members of 2 months plus and above have limited access [6-10 withdraws a day I think]

Tab 5 is Raid Supplies - all members of 2 months plus [knight rank] up have limited access - 2-3 withdraws

Tab 6 is our higher end items - boe epics and the like - only treasurers, recruitment and GMs can access.

Our GM as well as both treasurers have authenticators. My counterpart [the other treasurer] got hacked not long ago and cleaned us out. We got it all back [and she got an authenticator] and our members took care of each other as they usually do. The bank is our storage for later - not something essential to our day-to-day operation.
My recent post Emblems are now like Arena points; Raiders excused from LFD.