...because I said specifically "when you add extreme Folkishness to that." - and you have since proceeded as if I had said all Recons/Heathens.

I suspect your response to me is based on experiences or something more than I have actually said here.

In any event, to topic: if groups don't want to be considered Pagan, then they wil likely have to take on educating the media and the mainstream regarding their own group, as they are the ones who primarily lump everyone together. I don't really care all that much about this issue except where it benefits all Not Big 3 peoples regarding equal rights.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150330...

"I'm sure that some Reconstructionists and Heathens are being overly derogatory of Pagans; I do not dispute that. However, this attempt to tar Reconstructionists and Heathens with the brush of Nazism is a tired old tactic intended to shame people into toeing a particular line, and it's high time that people were called out on it. "

I do not want anyone to toe any line, and my post was quite specific; it is you who have tarred all Recons/Heathens and put words in my mouth. The blog and comments I referred to seemed to equate Wiccans with pagans and lumped all pagans together to boot; the same thing you are protesting here.

I would prefer that people be themselves (barring hate groups.) I don't care what you do or call yourself or whom you associate with as long as it's not destructive or harmful to others. I don't care about labels either, except as Oberon pointed out - that much progress has been made regarding equal rights under the loose term 'pagan' for many years now; it would be a shame to lose that progress.

No, I was not putting words in anyone's mouth, I was referring to the extremists, and you as well as I know there are a number of websites who mumble 'Odin' and White Supremacy/purity/superiority in the same breath. That's sad, disturbing and historically inaccurate, as the Norse peoples were not particularly xenophobic to the best of my knowledge..

Niether was my reaction knee-jerk, as my original comment was posted after reading the blog and comments I mentioned. They said what they said, labeling 'all pagans.' I was specific that extreme Folkishness could be an issue; not all Recons or followers of Norse traditions. So they - not I - are guilty of what you accuse me of.

It would be more productive to spare the general pagan community (goofballs included) and focus on the hate-breeders that are usurping the Norse pantheons/cultures, would it not?

I'll take a sparkly goofball (harmless) fluffy bunny over a hate-driven and potentially dangerous group any day. My Asatru friends do not subscribe to the form of extremism I mentioned, and in fact are angry at the usurping of their religious and cultural beliefs by these neo-Nazi's. Unless you are one, I fail to see how you could be offended at my pointing to them.

"Alot of what I've read on this topic makes me feel like recons, heathens, etc., are just trying to exclude people from their practice who don't measure up in some fashion?"

It does seem that way, doesn't it? Over on one of their blogs, the entire page is filled with 'they-they-they pagans' - and usually in a derogatory manner. I'm not sure who this 'they' is that they keep referring to, but apparently it's anyone who is 'not them.'

Add extreme Folkishness to that mentality and - oh, yes, we've seen where that leads, haven't we: "we're purer/our religion is purer/our group is purer than anyone else." Sieg, baby..

Pagan, to me, simply means 'not Big 3.' If others automatically associate it with Wicca or SCA or anything else, that's their own impression, and I'm not sure where they've gotten it, since Wiccans don't usually say they're pagan, they say they're Wiccan. Could these protestors be absorbing 'outside' definitions provided by xtianity and PR?

In any event, call yourself whatever you wish, but I think it's both foolish (& semantics) to not ALSO have a loose umbrella term for purposes of rights, etc. The umbrella term has no boundaries or restrictions inherent to it, nor is it 'a religion' - so I think al this squabbling is much ado about nothing.

Being concerned about equal rights is critical, I agree, but this is merely a blip inside the bigger picture, whch is the pseudo-xtian Right Wing slowly taking over and changing the very fundamentals of this country - as Barton's views so aptly illustrate his ilk. As we speak, they are purchasing universities (and have been for decades) - to eliminate liberal 'agenda's' being taught. We are truly headed for serious trouble if this continues; and they've made huge progress since the 70's. They have enormous monies behind them, and in 53 years, I haven't seen their agenda change; I've only seen it progressing; sometimes more slowly, sometimes more quickly. Bad, bad times.