IntenseDebate - muzzammil

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: Teenage g... · 1 reply · -3 points

I do not deny this is the classical law. To see a modern understanding, see: http://lamppostproductions.com/files/articles/PRE... which takes into account the milieu in which these laws were formulated and reveals the actual motivation for the law was not preservation of religion per se but preservation of political integrity and fear of treason (hence why the Prophet didn't kill apostates - despite their existence, why he added the clause "and they depart the community" and why Hanafis can exclude women from the rule).

Any way you slice it, Spencer was lying when he wrote "the death penalty ...is prescribed by all Muslim sects and schools for those who leave Islam" especially when it is in the context of a woman.

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: Teenage g... · 3 replies · -2 points

The Hanafi school is predominant in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Central Asia, Afghanistan, China - which alone constitutes almost 600 million Muslims - add to this the smaller proportions in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Bosnia, Albania and many others, approximately half of the Muslim population today follow the Hanafi school of fiqh. The Hanafi school was also adopted by the Abbasids and the Turks, and was thus state rule for most of Islamic history.

As for the apostasy law, see for example book Freedom of Religion, apostasy in Islam by Hassan Saeed p. 52, which references Sarkhasi's mabsut a classical book on Hanafi fiqh to show women are not killed for apostasy according to the Hanafi school. If you can read Arabic, you can access classical Hanafi works at http://feqh.al-islam.com/

The hadiths on the subject are clear:

Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 258:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.

Sahih Muslim:

Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

And according to the Qur'an: "Fight those who fight you and do not transgress" (2:190).

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: Teenage g... · 14 replies · -6 points

<If she is sent back to her family, she could be killed, in accord with the death penalty that is prescribed by all Muslim sects and schools for those who leave Islam>

Not true. Spencer is, as usual, lying. According to the Hanafi school (which has the largest Muslim following), a woman apostate is not killed because the Prophet forbade killing women. Thus even according to the classical law, there is disagreement, as opposed to Spencer's ascription of this law to "all Muslim sects and schools".

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: UK: Musli... · 2 replies · -10 points

It was *first* transmitted from pigs.

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: UK: Musli... · 4 replies · -17 points

From the same Wikepedia article, it continues to say:

"Alcohol was distilled for the first time by Persian chemists in the 8th and 9th centuries.[4] The development of the still with cooled collector—necessary for the efficient distillation of spirits without freezing—was an invention of Muslim alchemists during this time. In particular, Geber (Jabir Ibn Hayyan, 721–815) invented the alembic still; he observed that heated wine from this still released a flammable vapor, which he described as "of little use, but of great importance to science". Not much later Al-Razi (864–930) described the distillation of alcohol and its use in medicine. By that time, distilled spirits had become fairly popular beverages: the poet Abu Nuwas (d. 813) describes a wine that "has the colour of rain-water but is as hot inside the ribs as a burning firebrand". The terms "alembic" and "alcohol", and possibly the metaphors "spirit" and aqua vitae (“water of life”) for the distilled product, can be traced to Arabic alchemy"

Just because small amounts of alcohol may have been distilled earlier, it does not mean it was recognised as a chemical substance. "Alcohol" (an anglicised Arabic word) was first described by Arabic chemists.

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: UK: Musli... · 1 reply · -14 points

The hadith is in regards to "medicine" taken without need (haja) or necessity (durura) but for extra care or luxury (tahsin) e.g. dietary supplements. The proof, as the commentators have noted, is the fact that the Prophet himself prescribed impure substances (including the urine of camel) for treatment when there was need - http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?hn...

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: UK: Musli... · 12 replies · -14 points

Sorry, that should be alcohol distilled and purified (from wine). Arabs were the first to describe its properties.

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: UK: Musli... · 5 replies · -18 points

Wine was prohibited, not alcohol.

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: UK: Musli... · 14 replies · -15 points

Alcohol in fact derives from an Arabic word and was first synthesised by Arabic chemists in the eighth and ninth centuries (Jabir b Hayyan, al-Kindi and al-Razi).

14 years ago @ Jihad Watch - Jihad Watch: UK: Musli... · 2 replies · -8 points

Umdat al-Salik is a Shafii manual of fiqh not a Hanafi one. In the Shafii madhhab, the alchol gel would indeed be impure, but may be allowed for medicinal purposes. In the Hanafi madhhab, the gel itself is pure (as the alchol is synthetic and the gel is not intoxicating).

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