<DIV>I hear you and agree that in many cases it comes down to what works for 'that' person.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>I think what gets me with the whirlwind of naysayers internetwide is that this supposed fraud/charlatanism is mirrored by dozens of interviews with very succesful people.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>When they boil down their traits/beliefs/habits into lists, it comes out like what I've heard in interviews about how to apply the law of attraction.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>The secret movie did this a huge dis-service by presenting a new age la-la snippets version which sadly enough is probably a huge hit.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>I listened to 1-2 hour interviews with the same people who were on the movie and they all said most of what they had to say was cut.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>long story short, point 1 below is all that most people got out of the movie.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>1. focus on and envision your goal.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>but, the same people, when interviewed in detail said:</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>2. you must take action to move towards your goal. (ie not just slap a sticky note on your fridge & return to the couch)</DIV> <DIV>3. you need to find and disable negative and limiting beliefs that you've been fed since childhood. (I doubt theres anyone who can't relate to that)</DIV> <DIV>4. confront how some of your own actions may be defeating you. (ever met someone who says they have no money while they eat out several times per week, smoke $70 of cigarettes, $20 to lottery and $20 to videos?)</DIV> <DIV>5. be willing to persevere like anyone else who ever made it at anything. Jack Canfield was turned down by over 200 (two hundred) publishers before going on to worldwide bestseller Chicken Soup for the soul.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Without steps 2 thru 5, you could spawn legions of people who think it doesn't work.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>sorry for being long winded but this stuff is not some new age magic, its just a well rounded and realistic approach to positive thinking.</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>You can get the same pitch from Joel Osteen every Sunday.</DIV> <DIV>

--- On Tue, 10/27/09, IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications@intensedebatemail.com> wrote:
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sorry, I should have read more before replying. Right again I've never hard any of them mirror the biblical saying of giving away all your possessions but 10 out of 10 I've listened to all advise tithing 10% and say they do it. They admit its not always easy but everyone seems to feel its very important.

&lt;DIV&gt;I agree Jason, absolutely not an item for item correlation. The one statement I heard several mentors mention was attributed to all the aforementioned: the wording may vary but it was 'even the least among you can do everything I have and more'.&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;This resonated strongly with me because I have heard many a sermon which basically said the reverse: 'you don't measure up and won't.' but keep trying.&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;I literally sat in one church where they told everyone that God regarded them as no more than oily rags.&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;I suspect Joel Osteen is a far better force for the word and his sermons frequently sound word for word like the law of attraction.&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt; &lt;DIV&gt;Beyond that any list of traits, habits and beliefs of succesful people again tracks the same thing, and the people being interviewed are anything but dumb, naive sheep being fooled by charlatans.

--- On Tue, 10/27/09, IntenseDebate Notifications &lt;notifications@intensedebatemail.com&gt; wrote:
&lt;/DIV&gt;

Aside from this terrible tragedy which should never have been attempted or happened, there seem to be many, many people who are determined the loa is a hoax, and all around them people are happily applying it and succeeding. The difference is you can’t just watch the secret movie, put a picture on your fridge, and sit on the couch waiting for your new car.
That is NOT what these guys teach when allowed to finish their entire rap. The secret movie was just a series of snippets and MOST of what these guys had to say ended up on the cutting room floor.
When allowed time to finish, on the CD I bought, they lay out an easy to follow version of the law of attraction (but complete). Instead of some wishy-washy feel good new age stuff, it’s common sense actions that any self-made millionaire would grin at (having already DONE that).
Time and again articles about the common habits and beliefs of successful businessmen boil down to the same thing that these people teach about the law of attraction.
So if the loa is a fraud, there appear to be many very successful people being duped, using it and making a lot of money in business.

exactly, there are many less dangerous ways to achieve an altered state

There's no doubt that the sweat lodge idea was dangerous unless done as originally intended but the issue has now totally spilled over into the many fine teachers of the law of attraction, an entirely different subject. I think, if questioned, most people saying its all bunk couldn't tell you anything at all about what its basic tenets are.

I couldn't agree more but we are living in an age where no one wants to do that. Just ask any teacher in the school systems, they reprimand a child and the parents come down to yell at the teacher. 40 years ago the kid would have been punished by the parents, not the parents yell at the teacher.

If a teen shoots his classmates, its because he had a bad childhood.

Or how about the Twinky defense?

If someone makes bad investments, there weren't enough warnings.

the list is endless

Aside from this terrible tragedy which should never have been attempted or happened, there seem to be many, many people who are determined the loa is a hoax, and all around them people are happily applying it and succeeding. The difference is you can’t just watch the secret movie, put a picture on your fridge, and sit on the couch waiting for your new car.

That is NOT what these guys teach when allowed to finish their entire rap. The secret movie was just a series of snippets and MOST of what these guys had to say ended up on the cutting room floor.

When allowed time to finish, on the CD I bought, they lay out an easy to follow version of the law of attraction (but complete). Instead of some wishy-washy feel good new age stuff, it’s common sense actions that any self-made millionaire would grin at upon hearing(having already DONE that).

Time and again articles about the common habits and beliefs of successful businessmen boil down to the same thing that these people teach about the law of attraction.

So if the loa is a fraud, there appear to be many very successful people being duped, using it and making a lot of money in business.

This tragedy has caused a media pig pile on James Ray and a sad spillover effect on the law of attraction in general (whose basic concepts go back 1000’s of years and came from people like Christ, Buddha and Krishna.)
>>>The focus should be the dangers of attempting altered states thru such a harsh environment ONLY.<<<
I would like to know how many of the commenter’s who rush to judgment know anything about loa at all before making their pronouncements.
Read an interview with any successful person and you will hear the same basic tenets. Are all these successful people frauds and hoaxsters? Listen to Joel Osteen, same exact concepts. Charles Haanel-masterkey system-early 1900’s , same exact concepts.
Businessmen who took Haanels course felt it was so valuable they tried to buy it so it could no longer be distributed. Were all those succe$$ful businessmen being duped ?