en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/719751 Comments by jkrill http://jameskrill.com/2009/11/17/atonement/#IDComment44741436 I suppose, Bob. It just seems if Jesus' main reason for coming to Earth was to tell people how to be saved (by believing in him, or being "in him" - whatever that means) then that's all he would have done is gone around telling people "without me you are going to hell." Why not make it clear? But it's not clear. In fact, in the book of Mark - probably the first Gospel written after Jesus' life (according to biblical scholars), we don't see Jesus preaching a lot... in fact, most of the time he's healing or performing miracles. There is not a lot of theology, or teaching on judgment for that matter, and to me - that signals that this was not a big part of Jesus' ministry... but being with people, healing them, restoring them, was. Showing them a different way of living (through loving the unlovable, touching the untouchable, bringing back into the circle of life those who had been cast out). It seems like the further you get away (timewise) from Jesus' death, the more is added about Jesus preaching about judgment. That's the way I see it... from what I've learned thus far in my life... I admit, I am no scholar. I could be very wrong... but at this point in my life, for what I do know, for what I have studied, this is what I think... Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:47:14 +0000 http://jameskrill.com/2009/11/17/atonement/#IDComment44741436 http://jameskrill.com/2009/11/17/atonement/#IDComment44633395 Dustin and Bob, Thank you for your responses. Dustin, I agree with a lot of what you said about studying diverse opinions and positions and not just one perspective... I try to do that, but I'd admit to being guilty to only really wanting to read what I agree with most of the time. You make some good points... and I am well aware that the bible says a bunch of stuff about judgment - and I know this isn't very scholarly - but when it comes down to it... when I look at Jesus' life as a whole, his givingness, acceptance, forgiveness, and his death and ressurrection, and I look at the hope that exists in the gospels for all men to be saved... I think that a lot of the exclusive view points/statements that are made in the new testament, were added at a later time and was not what Jesus intended or taught - but is a result of deeply ingrained jewish beliefs and traditions / human's need for justice/revenge, and human flaw that is transposed onto Jesus and his message of grace and forgiveness. Maybe this is a total heretical statement to make because it goes against a grip of scripture - but in the end I wonder... so what if I believe this? Does it really change anything? I've been there in the "God will judge the wicked" camp, and I'm not sure I was a better person, a better member of the Kingdom of God. In fact, I think, for me, believing that all are saved helps me see all people exactly equal, and it's easier to love them the way Jesus/God must. I can't explain it, and I'm sorry I'm not much of a fighter when it comes to theological arguments (I'm a lover not a fighter)... but in the end, all will be revealed, and I'm just not sure it matters whether I believe some will be judged or some will not. I will still tell people about Jesus because I think there is wisdom in his words, there is love in his actions, and there is a better way of life in his Kingdom... and I want others to know and share in that. Anyway... thanks for the thoughts on this. I really do appreciate it... and Dustin and Bob, all your verses and examples and scholars are food for thought and I will consider reading some of them... but at this point in my life, most of my time and energy is spent on my family... and the rest on our community...and the rest on our town and the least of these. This may be the wrong thing... but it's a decision I've made... to focus on people first, and in-so-doing focus on God and his love. There are too many things I will never understand/comprehend about God and his mysteries... BUT, with all that said... I appreciate your time and energy in responding, in teaching and preaching, and helping the rest of us take time to consider theology... so that we don't go off and drink the koolade. Love you guys... Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:44:14 +0000 http://jameskrill.com/2009/11/17/atonement/#IDComment44633395