en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/4265577 Comments by cheesehead85 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/17/voices-from-the-classroom-150/#IDComment343181391 I fully believe that the way a child is raised and the people and places that they are exposed to greatly determines a large percentage of the person they become. I also believe that there are certain biological and genetic traits that cause a certain desire or curiosity regarding homosexuality, and I also believe that the person must make a choice to go down that path. These concepts all work in harmony together, and it is very difficult to point at one that is more important than the others. Fri, 20 Apr 2012 05:18:25 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/17/voices-from-the-classroom-150/#IDComment343181391 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/17/voices-from-the-classroom-150/#IDComment343181235 If someone was simply born with it but grew up in a strict, heterosexual household where they are raised by parents who monitor their activities and the media and people that they are exposed to, then I find it quite possible that they would have a great conflict in their mind, and maybe they would even live their life as a heterosexual person because they were never exposed to more liberal, gay people or things, and therefore they never had the ability to understand or comprehend it. People also learn, grow, and adapt based on their environment and the thiings around them. It also cannot purely be a choice. There has to be some biological trait that allows for that level of acceptance when it comes time to choose, because many people are against or even repulsed by the idea of being homosexual. For these people, it could not simply be a choice where they decide being gay is something they should do, despite the fact that they have absolutely no biological or natural trait that allows them to desire or even accept it. Fri, 20 Apr 2012 05:18:06 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/17/voices-from-the-classroom-150/#IDComment343181235 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/17/voices-from-the-classroom-150/#IDComment343181004 I think that this is a great question, and I definitely think the environment a person is exposed to and grows up in has a major effect on many things about them, including their sexual orientation. As a heterosexual, I am a little bit out of my element in attempting to see things from a homosexual's perspective; however, a person's environment is so extremely critical, and it determines so much about that person, how they develop, and who they develop into. For example, I believe growing up being raised by gay parents could likely increase one's likelihood of becoming gay, or at least possibly lead them to explore their sexuality as opposed to someone raised in a household more typical of the "standard American family": father, mother, 2 kids. I feel like there are many other factors as well. A person's friends or role models can have a massive impact on the person they are. Also, depending on what state the person is from, the legal system may view homosexuality quite differently than another state. I struggle buying into either the staunch "born with" argument or the staunch "choice" argument. I believe it has to be a combination. Fri, 20 Apr 2012 05:17:40 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/17/voices-from-the-classroom-150/#IDComment343181004 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834510 My point is this: I don't know what happened that night, and neither does anyone who was not there. If Zimmerman was not attacked, then it's murder and wrong, and I hope they find him guilty. But there's a lesson here: we've talked all semester about how NOW, after this class, we're going to take in ALL the information, not just what we want to hear. Can we all honestly say that we've done that here?? Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:39:17 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834510 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834411 He was walking through the yards and properties of homes in a gated community where he did not reside at night in the rain. For those of you who don't understand, "gated community" means trespassing is illegal. As far as the Skittles go, Trayvon Martin had his hand in his waistband, and Zimmerman expressed his discomfort with not knowing what was in his hand...and get this...he did this before he knew Martin's race. When it comes to the shooting, Florida laws say that you may, with a permit, which Zimmerman had, carry a concealled weapon. Florida laws ALSO state that when attacked, you may shoot someone in self-defense. This is where the whole issue lies: was Zimmerman attacked or not?? He had cuts and bruises all over him, but we don't know if that was from him attacking or being attacked. Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:39:03 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834411 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834257 Then, only 5 months later, all it takes is a 911 call and a family's anger, and we're condemning a man before he's put through the legal system??? I believe in what Sam always preaches and we all CLAIM to do ourselves: taking in ALL of the information, and doing my best not to judge until I know everything. Since we all know the reasons for why many believe it IS a racial situation, I will provide the evidence that points against it. First of all, many people are stuck on the "these people always get away" comment. Everyone is convinced this is a racial comment?? Seriously? This is an affluent, gated community which has had major issues with black AND white trespassers recently, and I strongly believe that he is referring to the kids who are always trespassing (white OR black OR any other race). Is it possible he meant black people? Absolutely it's possible, but this is in NO way solid evidence of racial bias. Next, I've seen comments of how Trayvon Martin was "simply walking down the street with some Skittles". Let's get this straight. Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:38:42 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834257 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834070 I find this question very interesting, and I may not be as quick to judge or play God as some others might. First of all, the story is tragic. A young, 17-year-old boy dying is never, ever something positive or okay by any stretch of the imagination. However, we all are in a class where we CONSTANTLY preach how important it is to take in ALL of the facts, not just the ones we want to hear, and I feel like the simple-minded idea of hearing a racial slur on a 911 call and using that to condemn a man we know nothing about with murder is falling short of taking in all that we know. Or perhaps the guy who asked this question simply knew only that much. Either way, I find anyone who proclaims to know EXACTLY what happened and why it happened to be extremely quick to judge and naive. I believe the appropriate answer to this person's question is that people with intelligence are doing their best not to be drawn into the polarizing nature of the situation like so many others. We sit here and slam the media for how they portray Penn State after our darkest hour, and talk about how the media simply wants a story and they don't really have all of the facts of what they're reporting. Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:38:17 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/10/voices-from-the-classroom-145/#IDComment337834070 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/03/voices-from-the-classroom-141/#IDComment332602064 If so, that's great, but if not, then it's not an issue!! If you want a guy out there who appreciates you and cares for you for the person that you are as well as your looks, then you shouldn't be interested in pleasing those guys that NEED you to dress up! Because you don't want them anyway! This is what a lot of guys like me think about, and this is where the "lack of respect for herself" comes from. Like I said, this does not apply for all clothing that may be more revealing, just the clothes where it is really obvious you're trying (you know what I'm talking about). Anyway, the stereotypes are that whenever a woman dresses a certain way, she is desperately looking for attention, and on the flip side, the stereotype is that a woman MUST dress a certain way to get noticed. We all have to understand that in many cases, this is not true. Thu, 5 Apr 2012 22:12:13 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/03/voices-from-the-classroom-141/#IDComment332602064 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/03/voices-from-the-classroom-141/#IDComment332601928 I can't speak on behalf of all men, but I feel very strongly that most guys share my views on this. These reasons cause me to lose respect for her and to feel like she might not have a lot of respect for herself. As guys, let's face it: we love women. They're the reason we get up in the morning (at least me), but it kind of bothers me when I hear women saying "the only way a guy will pay attention to me is if I'm dressed like this". Yes, there are a lot of guys out there who that applies to, but there are a lot of guys who will notice you regardless of what you wear. As guys, we know what we want, and a hoodie and sweatpants are not going to hide a beautiful woman from us. I admit there are many guys out there who will NOT notice you, but my question then would be: is that really the kind of guy you want??? You want a guy who you HAVE to dress up for and reveal more for and do your hair all the time etc, etc....?? Thu, 5 Apr 2012 22:11:59 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/03/voices-from-the-classroom-141/#IDComment332601928 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/03/voices-from-the-classroom-141/#IDComment332601744 I feel like women walk a very fine line between being proud or confident of themselves and portraying themselves in a way that will cause others to respect them less. First off, I feel like wearing a bikini (in most cases) does not portray a woman as "revealing too much" or "looking for attention". There are certainly some articles of clothing that WILL have this effect, however. Certain clothes reveal a woman's body to the extent to which it is very close to revealing certain parts of her body. When a piece of clothing comes within a centimeter of showing everything, and most people (men and women) are able to identify when clothing reaches this stage, it begins to portray the girl or woman as desperately seeking attention. As a guy, if I see a girl dressed in this way, who is seeking attention, I immediately begin to think less of her. My guess is that she is either insecure or very interested in landing the next guy she meets, neither of which is attractive or impressive. Thu, 5 Apr 2012 22:11:39 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/04/03/voices-from-the-classroom-141/#IDComment332601744 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/27/voices-from-the-classroom-136/#IDComment327392104 You could even make the argument that part of the humor was that Fox News was mocking serious, diehard football fans, who are very excited about the Pac-12 conference re-alignment. This thing was a big deal when it happened and was splashed all over major news networks. As a diehard football fan, I can personally say it caused me a lot of excitement and anticipation. And yet, the video tells us, here is a large group of people that don't find your silly entertainment important or significant at all. Anyway, congratulations to the white guy for having the guts and the lower intestinal fortitude to stand up and speak the dead honest truth. Maybe next time someone speaks up, we will have a fair, productive race conversation. Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:02:28 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/27/voices-from-the-classroom-136/#IDComment327392104 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/27/voices-from-the-classroom-136/#IDComment327391939 If a person has racist tendencies, the way to cure that is to allow them to express their feelings, all of them, even the untasteful ones, and then you have a discussion with them where you (respectfully) point out flaws or issues in their logic. For example, you might tell a friend that they're being discriminatory against blacks if they go along with the party line that "blacks use cocaine and crack more often than everyone else". The way to have a race discussion is to allow others to express their views while you also express yours. Anyway, had this been a discussion about Trayvon Martin and someone had said something controversial, they would have been instantly slammed for it, and then your honest race conversation goes no further. That makes no progress, and that is NOT a good way to deal with race issues. I don't think the Asian people need to necessarily be "called out" for appreciating humor about their own people. Furthermore, I felt this was a video illustrating Asians' total lack of interest in football in America, NOT their literacy (because they spoke very well). Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:02:14 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/27/voices-from-the-classroom-136/#IDComment327391939 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/27/voices-from-the-classroom-136/#IDComment327391801 I feel like the white guy was unfairly ridiculed for his opinion that he shared, stating that while he realized the material might be touchy for some, he found it comical. I find it very interesting how so many black and brown people have harped all semester on the importance of getting the white person to "talk" about race and "notice" race and "join in the conversation at the race table". All semester long this has been pushed and drilled into everyone, that people need to be more open and discuss racial issues and affairs. And then, when we have ONE white guy share his opinion that a controversial video caused him some laughs, he gets SLAMMED????? For minutes upon minutes??? How in the WORLD is that remotely fair, and how on earth are we supposed to make any progress in race relations if one simple opinion of comedy gets you a 10-minute lashing? Imagine if we had been having a discussion of more serious, intense, full-on racism, like for example, the Trayvon Martin issue?? Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:01:57 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/27/voices-from-the-classroom-136/#IDComment327391801 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/21/voices-from-the-classroom-126/#IDComment322298666 I think of when Sam talked about helping his friend go to the bathroom. I don't care what you say, no one can honestly say that they would experience something like that for the first time and not think anything of it or not find it new or different at all. It would be an experience that would stick with you for the rest of your life, and that is how I see the stages. I also agree with what the girl in class said today about how she feels like she moves back and forth a little bit between stages. I completely agree with this. In our society today, how can you not?? For example, say a black person is at Stage 5. The Trayvon Martin tragedy would, I believe, seriously cause you to reemerse yourself in your own race and culture and background. How could it not? I feel like the stages are not set or fixed, and it is very easy for one to move back and forth between them. I think this is a very good thing. I believe it shows that we are more accepting and understanding of each other than ever before, and we are alert and aware of the world around us. We understand it far better than we ever have, and we will continue to understand it better and better. Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:02:19 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/21/voices-from-the-classroom-126/#IDComment322298666 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/21/voices-from-the-classroom-126/#IDComment322298451 I definitely feel like race relations or racism or anything related to it is not an issue for me, but maybe that question would be better answered by people or friends around me who are minorities because, honestly, I feel like any white person who is not called a racist and has friends who are minorities is going to respond with "oh, yeah....I get along great with anybody. No problems!" I just feel like there is more to it than having friends and being around minorities and being accepting. The stages represent critical thought processes and real-life experiences or life lessons that really cannot be emulated. Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:01:52 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/21/voices-from-the-classroom-126/#IDComment322298451 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/21/voices-from-the-classroom-126/#IDComment322298190 I grew up in a predominantly white community with few minorities. Though there were not many minorities, I always felt like race relations were never an issue for our school, because people just got along and were friends and cool with each other. Of course, this is coming from a white person, and I have absolutely no way of knowing what the minorities felt about their experience at our school. Maybe they saw it differently and felt as though they had experiences where they were discriminated against. Or maybe they got along with everyone and had no problems but were constantly very aware that the school was mostly white. I feel like, when you're in the majority, you really do not think about race relations or issues nearly as much, if at all. Our school was incredibly weird in that everyone was so chill with everyone else, and maybe I'm just taking this experience and applying it to the minorities in the school, rather than really feeling their side of it. Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:01:26 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/21/voices-from-the-classroom-126/#IDComment322298190 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/15/voices-from-the-classroom-121/#IDComment317236117 We try to be so nice and kind and help the world, and that is the dumbest thing I think we could be doing, because all it does is get you in trouble. I feel like we should just defend ourselves and a small group of allies. We should not ever deal with nor place troops in any of the other countries. This would ensure we do not upset them or occupy their country when it is against their wishes. Likewise, the next time they are in trouble, be it from a Saddam Hussein or whoever, good luck dealing with it yourselves. We do not need to be wasting our time in matters where the other party doesn't even want us there anyway. I think it is tragic and sad, and I feel we should completely reexamine our foreign policy, pull our troops out of many countries, and cut our foreign aid. They will be able to go about their business on their own, the way they wish, and so can we. Fri, 16 Mar 2012 03:17:45 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/15/voices-from-the-classroom-121/#IDComment317236117 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/15/voices-from-the-classroom-121/#IDComment317235965 Like Sam said, they're stealing it for their families, so they can eat. They desperately need it. If you let them go with a slap on the wrist, do you really think they're not going to do it again?? How do you prevent it? You destroy the car, however necessary. I guarantee you that guy's not stealing any wood now. I find it amazing how we are sitting in class and pointing at things that we see as wrong. Of course there are things wrong. It is war. War is not good or moral. There are never "good guys" and "bad guys". Anyone who actually believes that is so naive in terms of what war entails. It is ugly, scary, horrific, and unfair. Innocent people die, many survivors are injured, and other survivors make it through physically unharmed, yet psychologically and emotionally damaged forever. There are Americans in Iraq who are doing bad things, and trust me, even though we never talk about it in class, there are Iraqis in Iraq doing many bad things as well. I personally feel like America spends way too much time in foreign affairs. Fri, 16 Mar 2012 03:17:25 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/15/voices-from-the-classroom-121/#IDComment317235965 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/15/voices-from-the-classroom-121/#IDComment317235752 I was not very surprised by the videos we saw in class of the American soldiers over in Iraq. Many people began to call into question ethics and whether it was right or wrong. Many people fail to understand that the United States of America is at war with Iraq. In war, all bets are off. It is extremely easy for us to sit in our cozy classrooms at this amazing university that we are all lucky enough to attend and to point fingers at others who are living day-to-day in a place of uncertainty and cruelty, where their lives are constantly in danger. When countries go to war, they do not ensure that they will be polite and generous to each other throughout. They ensure that they can win. If any one of us were put in a stressful situation, it is unknown what our actions or behaviors would be. Running the car off the road was clearly an action that does not hold any merit or moral righteousness. Again, though, who's to say none of us would do the same thing when placed day after day in a stressful, scary, brutally violent country, in the middle of a warzone? As far as crushing the car, that was how those Iraqis were stealing wood. Fri, 16 Mar 2012 03:16:57 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/03/15/voices-from-the-classroom-121/#IDComment317235752 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/02/29/what-more-do-you-want-to-think-about/#IDComment305807311 It sounds so incredibly stupid, but I just had not considered that until then. One thing I would like to learn more about, and this sounds really stupid and suck-up-ish, but it's not, is I want to try to develop Sam's ability to think very objectively about hot-button, controversial, emotional issues, or as he likes to call it, "sitting in the middle of everything". I respect that ability a lot because that is extremely hard to do, especially on those issues that really stir up your emotions and draw you strongly to one side immediately, depending on your personal opinion. Thu, 1 Mar 2012 23:07:00 +0000 http://www.worldinconversation.org/2012/02/29/what-more-do-you-want-to-think-about/#IDComment305807311