alexcrockett

alexcrockett

15p

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16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - Culture, Mythology ... · 0 replies · +1 points

Good thoughts!!! My Dad and I have butted head about spirituality for years. His parents were missionaries in China and Sri Lanka so he rejected explicit forms of religion but has always had a very deep spiritual awreness. It's something he's tried to share and impart to me for a long time. I studied science and so I guess as a consequence ended up rejecting any form of spirituality. The truth is however, I've really shifted my own views, there is a spiritual quality to experience and I'm not even sure that we have to define what it is. For me very simple things evoke a sense of wholeness, rain and nature for example are very important to me, I couldn't really explain it more than that.

I read William James's Varieties of Religious Experience a few years ago and it had a very impact on how I think about things. The book is wonderful and lays out in a very clear way the different ways in which peoples sense of religiosity has had very powerful effects on them.

What has changed most dramatically for me is that having some "spiritual sense" has become important in a personal way, I find something very natural to it and it can be very important to people, although I'm not religious in any way that would make much sense I've seen people's lives change because of belief. And I do think that we've largely lost touch with it to our disadvantage.

Part of the dilemma I think that we have is that the connotations of spirituality have a hard time standing up in the face of science. I would personally like to see a re-working of what we mean when we talk about spirituality, it's the loss of deeper meaning that in a way I think contributes to a fragmentation of society. I know that what I'm writing may not seem that clear, it's not that clear to me either but, i do think it is a very important topic. There are a lot of writers these days given to disposing of any notions of spirituality, people like Daniel Dennett (who is a first rate philosopher). The main difference between my own views and theirs is that I see first person experience as very important, they are committed to a third person science that by it's very nature can not take account of the first person qualities we all experience.

You are right also about processions, it wold be worth reading about the cult of Dionysus. I am sure that groups gathering and sharing some kind of experience has existed throughout human history, I think it would make for a very interesting post as well (so will start giving it some thought), but the Dionysian cults are an very clear and early example of the power and significance of that shared experience. I'll find some good links and send them to you.

What is interesting is that all of these things are related. That is that funeral processions, cults, gatherings, spirituality and an individualistic or collectivist mentality are all part and pasel (to me at least) of something that is very relevant to humanity.

I would as always be glad for your thoughts and ideas. You've already given me some rich food for thought. i would love to hear more about your experiences and memories of funeral processions in the south. Do you write about them in your book (<a href="http://www.katemayfield.com/books.html)?" target="_blank">http://www.katemayfield.com/books.html)? I hope you don't mind me posting a link to the book, only I really think it will be an interesting read (and am looking forward to reading it myself).
With Kind Regards As Always,
Alex

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - Culture, Mythology ... · 2 replies · +1 points

Kate, Thank you for your comment.

It's always nice getting considered comments from people so I've spent most of this morning considering "turning metaphor into myth". I've come to the conclusion that what has happened in our culture is the reverse of that process. That is that what once were myths we now consider as either good metaphors or quaint allegories meant to convey some aspect of life we're all familiar with. If that is right then for me at least it highlights the considerable difference between Ancient Greek thought and our own thought today.

For the Greeks the myths were very important and certainly with Demeter the cult that surrounded her had annual processions to celebrate her. These processions were also in part a celebration of the harvest and of the cycle of life itself. There have been accounts I've read of describing the enormous redemptive and life affirming quality of the processions. The closest thing I can think of to the same quality today might be the experience of a rock concert or a religious festival. But the difference is clear.

I agree about fragmented society and I don't even know how to begin to think about it. On the one hand I can see great benefit. We have more ideas with a greater ability to express them than we ever had. On the other hand I can't help feeling that there is a cynical faddist mentality about many of our attitudes and that many of these combine the innocuous with the grotesque. But then who am I to judge? I'd of course be glad for your thoughts!!

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - everything is 'natu... · 0 replies · +1 points

Your point is well taken. I have read more than one account that suggests that there is a cross-dimensionality between this (physical) universe and a universe of mentality.

However, that doesn't exclude the possibility that the each universe is contained within a system that is physically closed (albeit for all of the), and that requires better definition of what we mean by physicality (which seems to be vague in and of itself).

That seems to be less an empirical question as one of logic + science + reason. In addition there are a plethora of theories (string theory included that would allow for that possibility.

As far as Spinoza is concerned I don't think (and would be glad to be shown this is wrong) that there is anything in the argument that contradicts Spinoza (with the difference that for me morality is rational as opposed to given by nature). I think the naturalistic fallacy holds in any instance in which natural phenomena are used to make moral judgments.

Again, and as always I think the value here would be a counterpoint that I can't think of at present. I hope though that you can return and continue the discussion!!!

I would be more than glad to know your thoughts!

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - everything is 'natu... · 0 replies · +1 points

Nyloncube, you make a more than reasonable point. One that is more than difficult to circumvent. However, I would draw a distinction between what we mean when we talk about nature and nature in the universal sense (which is the sense that I mean). It is morality attached to nature that i have an issue with.

I agree discourse occurs within a nature, or at least a natural context. However, I also think that someone like Merleau-Ponty makes the point in his phenomenology that we are embedded within the context of nature aside from the noral connotations of everyday discourse.

In that sense I think that the order of the terms is important. For me culture exists within a natural context (as you mention) and it is that context within which the discourse is contained. In that sense discourse must obey some of the principles of nature or act as an extension of it.

For me the point is that there is no construct/entitythat can possibly exist outside of nature in the sense that the proponents of the naturwissenschaften would have it. Even if we were to take a hermeneutic approach I would think that the discourse within which the process occurs is a natural one in the sense that it must at some level obey the laws of the natural world. The point being that in any of the possible worlds nature is a necessarily (a priori) position to maintain. We might eliminate tables, chairs and toasters which we can do without, but we can't do without the concpet of nature?

Again, I would be grateful for your thoughts!!!

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - everything is 'natu... · 0 replies · +2 points

Nyloncube, thank you for a clearly well thought comment. I agree that more often than not more grounded approaches will make the difference to skeptics

However, I don't agree that nature and culture are opposed, in fact i think that any permutation of culture is also an example of nature. I think that it is a post-empiricist perspective to divide the world into the natural and the human. For me they are one and the same thing, albeit existing at different levels.

The point of the piece was really to show that everything that occurs in the world is a sub-set of natural phenomena, be that toasters, flowers or oil companies, they are all natural in as much as they exist in nature, can be studied naturally and as far as we know exist in this world, of which all things are natural. I was less interested in making a 'strong' argument for environmentalism (though I did want tomake one clear) than for showing that nature is not only a pervasive feature but that if that is the case, and in my own mind it is, we achieve little by ignoring that fact.

I would be glad for further comments (especially if you think I am making a clear mistake). I appreciate that what I am saying goes a little against the grain but, I also hope that will add to the possibility of debate.

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - Poetry Embodied · 0 replies · +1 points

Adam, Thank you for the comment. Hope all is well with you. What have you been ip to, drop me an e-mail sometime. Always good to hear from you!!! Any plans to visit the US of A anytime. If so let me know!

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - Discussing Time & Travel · 0 replies · +1 points

Я не понимал то, что Вы сказали? Вы можете сказать больше?

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - Social Consciousness: ... · 0 replies · +1 points

Ruth, Thank you for the comment. Hah....maybe one of the reasons me and wine are unpopular in share d company! Yeah, I feel the same about the pictures, with the first i think of being in an office in London looking into the streets on a rainy maorning in the winter, the second i love, it's so warm and despite the space it feels cosy to me, I think the two are a real contrast though i hadn't considered it until you mentioned them. Thank You!

16 years ago @ Broken Postcard - I'd like to comment bu... · 0 replies · +1 points

Hey There, Thank you for the comment. Actually I've found your thoughts and comments very interesting. It's from many of our chats that I've shaped a few of the posts in the blog. I really hope you keep reading. I love the insight, ideas and thought!