Thankyou Louise, (I am really Pete, by the way, anonymity be damned, I'm not ashamed of my views and anyone nutty enough to try to harm me would have a job differentiating me from all of the other Petes in the UK!)

You've made me think a bit actually, I may have unintentionally come across badly in some of the things I've said. I used to know a lovely married woman who desparately wanted children but couldn't have them, I say 'used to know' because when it was finally confirmed that she couldn't she became extremely depressed and almost hermitic, I haven't seen her in about five years and neither have our mutual friends. It was extremely sad. Being childless (which is different from the term childfree, I hasten to add) ate away at her and when her friends started to become pregnant it was more than she could bear. I do hope that I haven't upset anybody who wants children and is struggling to by announcing all that I have about 'choices'. Sometimes it's easy to forget that it's not a choice for some people. I apologise wholeheartedly to anyone who's read my comments and been upset because I may come across as being glib about always having a choice in the matter.

Another woman I know, a former colleague, had wanted children for years but couldn't, recently the photos of her and her adopted baby were passed around work and I felt such happiness for her that she'd finally got what she wanted, she looked so perfectly happy in the photos. Also, to give the adoption services credit where it's due, they'd even found a baby that looked like her! Each to their own I suppose, I hope everybody finds happiness in their lives and learns how to accept the happiness of others.

Again, thankyou for your kind comments and your balanced views, I didn't take your question as an enquiry about why a brit should be looking at a Canadian website, this'll probably sound odd to anyone Canadian but I'd never heard of Macleans until I found this article!

I've never visited Canada but I've had a few Canadian friends here in the UK and abroad and I have an Aunt and cousin in Toronto, one day I will come and see Canada. I've liked the Canadians I've met and the photos and films of Canada I've seen are awe inspiring. I like the thought of all of that unspoiled wilderness and 'proper' weather!

I think I've probably posted a bit too much on this thread so will make this one my last (unless I happen to stumble upon it again and find people who think it's OK to go on mighty offensives against those who don't have children for whatever reason, I find it hard to turn down a challenge)!

Kindest regards.

Pete

We, as rational people, must be careful with what we say. Yes, any idiot can breed but that isn't saying that all people who have children are idiots. If you read through a lot of the comments here you'll find that there's a big mixture of opinions and tolerance for the childfree amongst those who have children. The rabid lot who cry that childfree people are selfish and that they'll end up lonely and unfulfilled, that they're shallow and a burden, might stand out more because what they're saying is irrational and incorrect to us. That good parents, decent hard-working people with sound morals and respectful attitudes should have children isn't an issue, it doesn't harm us (the childfree) indeed it strengthens us all as a society and as a species. That so many inconsiderate, unintelligent idiots can and DO have children is more of a problem. When I say that I don't mean that it's a problem JUST to the childfree, it's a problem to everybody, including the good parents, including their children. As I've said several times, if the ability to breed was based on high intelligence and ability the Earth's population would naturally fall to the extent that we'd have no worries with dwindling resources. We cheapen our argument by slinging mud at everybody who has children and strengthen it by exposing those so weak that they cannot rationalise.

As a childfree person I admire you, you struggled against the odds for the family you wanted and you're doing what you know is right for you. You're doing a hard job, raising three children, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have the patience and dedication to do it. All I can manage is to be a good uncle but at least I know that my nephews enjoy the time we spend together. It's lovely to know that there are parents out there who understand why we feel like we do and rest assured, most of us understand how the desire to parent can be overwhelmingly strong in others. I wish you and your family all the best and thank you for the respect you've shown for my feelings.

Ah, suggesting a parent murder their child because you don't agree with said child. That's good, very mature. I hope that was an attempt at humour, I mean, it wasn't at all funny but that's the only excuse you could possibly offer for such an abusive comment. I'm trying to work out what "cwe" stands for, I've got 'Completely Witless' but the E's still defying me, perhaps you can help?

You think that people who don't think that they'd be capable of providing properly for a child should still voluntarily be parents?

You think that it's better for an individual to bring an unwanted child into the world just because they can?

Please clarify your point.

How is criticising "welfare queens" (by which I assume is a term used to describe women who choose not to work but instead have lots of children in order to gain the highest benefit handouts they can get) being racist? "Welfare Queens" aren't a race or are you implying that "Welfare Queens" belong to a particular race? If you are then I'd suggest that you are the racist here.

If strident people shouldn't have children then neither should people who are so misinformed that they think that there's a race called "Welfarequeenians".

I'm going to see the doctor on Monday and get this resolved once and for all, then if I tell anyone I can't have children, I won't be lying!

Because often people's reasons are none of your business. Having children was instinctive TO YOU as it is to most other people. Still, you, as a total stranger, feel it's prudent to suggest that our reasons are driven by selfishness because we don't all wish to divulge this information to you.

Maybe I should accuse you of having children because you have an inferiority complex and you want someone to control, maybe I should say that you want children because you want to make sure your partner doesn't leave you, maybe I should say that you want kids because you failed in your ambitions and you want to mould your offspring into a new you who achieves where you didn't, maybe I should say that you had them to make sure there's someone there to wipe your backside when you become old and incontinent. But if I did, I'd be doing what you're doing. It's likely that you had children, as most people do, because they want them, because of the love and satisfaction they feel they can gain from having them and that they feel they have a lot to give children. I don't know and frankly, I don't care, I really don't, so long as you're happy in your choice it's none of my business. Good for you, that's all I say.

To cut the vitriol: You have kids because you wanted them, I don't because I didn't. Now let's all just respect THAT about one another and stop making assumptions and veiled accusations of character flaws. Thankyou.

Hi Louise, why am I here? Well, my last relationship ended over this issue, I'd been honest with my ex girlfriend about being CF from the very start and she accepted it, she'd just assumed that she'd have kids one day and had never really considered an alternative but when she realised it was a choice we settled into a great relationship. We fell in love and started planning a future together. We had a great fourteen months and we were about to move in together before her friends and colleagues started having kids. All of a sudden everyone started telling her that I was selfish and wrong and worst of all - That I'd change because "ALL men say THAT! ALL men CHANGE". Every conversation in her office became about babies, scan photos, nurseries etc. Thus the seed was planted and she started believing them when they said I was 'unnatural' and 'selfish' and according to her misinformed, know nothing colleagues 'didn't love her'.

Eventually it became an obsession with her, what had been mutual love and respect became a mountain of soul searching. In the end I had to finish the relationship despite us still being very much in love. Truly, I don't know how much her friends and colleagues influenced her but to say that they didn't help would be a gross understatement. I totally respect her decision to have children, especially if she came to that decision entirely for herself, I'll never know and much as I loved her the fairest thing I could do was let her go to find someone else to have them with. So far she hasn't and she still says she loves me and isn't ready to move on but there's no way we can be together. I've been reading a lot on the internet lately about this and a google search brought me here, when I saw people denigrating the childfree, insulting them and sticking their noses in without having any real understanding of the conviction it takes to KNOW that it's not for you in a world where all of the pressure is on you to do it I felt I had to comment. People should be allowed to make their own decisions, when the herd start mooing in unison the pressure to moo along can become irrational and overpowering.

You didn't ask me any personal questions but I gave you a personal answer; that's why I'm here!

Hence, it's something close to my heart. I've resumed old hobbies now and am having a great time childfree and single, I so very nearly bowed to the pressure myself and I've KNOWN since my teens that I didn't want kids. I can see why so many do collapse, it's insidious but prevalent pressure on many levels but I knew it would be absolutely the wrong thing for me to do and unfair on the unwanted child I'd father who, having no say in the matter, would be the one who really suffered. That's why I was honest with my ex girlfriend from the first date onward! Nasty, selfish, evil, irrational, shallow childfree man that I am!

Or wouldn't it be more practical to say that if muslim women want to wear their modest swim suits during times when it's ladies only swimming then there'd be no objection? Many pools in the UK have specific times that are ladies only, why on earth would a muslim woman object to seeing women dressed rather less modestly than themselves? When I lived in Saudi Arabia it was normal for muslim women to remove their burkhas and wear ordinary dresses when in the sole company of other women. During the four months I was there I only saw one woman's uncovered face, briefly in a bookshop, her hair was covered but she was beautiful, I glanced once, to look for any longer would have been inviting a trip to have the soles of my feet beaten in the nearest jail.

If I'm an old crank looking to stir up racial tension then please explain how. I'm all for mutual respect... "When in Rome... etc"