Ok, crimes have been committed. Who's been convicted and who is in jail? I've seen no proof, only some names and crimes that have been committed. Were these crimes sanctioned by anyone in Scientology? I am sure you could find Catholics, Jews, Methodist who have done the same things. Should I then be worried about these groups?

Many groups have been under investigation. The fact of investigation does not mean guilt.

I am not an apologist for Scientology. The point I've been making all along is that because there are kooks and nut in a group does not mean all of that group are kooks or nuts, or that they are bad people because of their association with it. Anyone who thinks that and paints all of a group by the actions of a few IS ignorant and dangerous.

I've heard about Snow White and know that people went to jail over it. If they commit crimes they should go to jail.

When any group is being attacked they will act in a defensive and aggressive manner. Perhaps they are paranoid about past attacks. I doubt they are putting blocks on their members computers, perhaps their staff's computers...

For the record I really don't care about Scientology. But I do care that a group seems to be being dehumanized by innuendo and name calling.

As Heinlein said: "What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!"

At any rate, this was a spirited debate. Perhaps I will take the other side next time, if I care enough to research it. Over to you Miss Quinn.

???

I obviously do not follow this stuff they way you do. I haven't heard of any of these people. From the vitriol and passion in your posts, it sounds like you've been damaged in some way by them. Ex-Scientologist? I'd just avoid religion all together. There is such a thing as "let the buyer beware".

If someone thinks that Scientology, or Islam, or Satan worship is going to save them, yet they will not lift a finger to help themselves then they deserve what they get. No matter the claims or how reputable the organization, if it is too good to be true then it probably is.

However, the specifics you site sound like they are statistical outliers. The test would be if there were a notable percentage of these incidents that were significantly more than say the Catholics, Jews, or Muslims.

In your earlier post you said something about betraying my ignorance. I am not betraying anything. I never claimed to have knowledge about Scientology other than my observations of those I knew. I've said, and I say again that stereo typing is what is being engaged in here. No different than Jews being called pigs and monkeys; or blacks being called junglebunnies. So, you've attacked me in a personal way while I have not done that to you.

You used the word "lockdown" which according to the dictionary is: "the confinement of prisoners to their cells for all or most of the day as a temporary security measure". So my comment about chains is relevant.

All religions or cults (if you prefer) will try to control their message and their believers. Until people start believing in themselves and not the promises made to them then there is no action you can take unless you are going to outlaw all religion...Then you'll have a greater disaster and you won't have to worry about Scientology anymore..

I won't be doing any Google searches. Did I mention I don't care? Between the Congressional cult and the Chicago Thugocracy running rampant in Washington, Scientology is about the last thing I intend to worry about.

Don't know. Don't care. Every religion has their "true believers". Cruise no doubt is. Katie...who knows? It obviously has appeal to people. I doubt they are keeping her locked up in chains some where. I doubt there is a religion existing that does not have some abuses in it's past. I assume you are using the dollar sign to show they are only interested in money? I have no problem with anyone obtaining money through an exchange of value for value. If there is force or fraud involved then investigate and prove the case.

I've known several Scientologist who are good citizens, productive and conservative politically. That doesn't mean all are or even that most are. The point is you cannot generalize from one or two people. I don't think Scientologist are mainstream. If they were there would not be a stereo typecasting going on here. I haven't seen any of these kooks killing anyone, killing themselves, dying of drug overdoses or trying to behead people. I've not heard of one saying if you do not believe in it you are going to hell or are to be killed. I am afraid your news flash has gone over my head -- I do not know what that means. However, a modern day Jesus Christ would no doubt be pilloried if he claimed to have risen from the dead.

Oh please, give it a rest on Scientology and Cruise. Who cares? Every religion or psudo-religion has wierdos and kooks. All have a fringe. Come back when you have facts about crimes and about his wife being held against her will. All else is gossip and unworthy of comment.

I don't get the statement " People like Ayn Rand and Marx are simply two sides of the same coin." There is a world of difference between Marx and Rand. Marxism does not have "man" the individual as god, it has the masses as god and the individual nothing, except perhaps a cog in the great machine. I'd say the only thing they have in common is their atheism but for very different reasons. Not that Rand did not have her flaws, foibles and aberrations to be sure but these two philosophies are not only not two sides of the same coin, they are not even in the same universe.

Typical leftist/statist response to an argument. Personal attacks, nothing on substance. More and more people have gotten wise to this tactic and so it will work less and less. You'll either have to step up and defend your position with facts or be thought your screen name.

I have to say I don't know how it could be that I could be so lucky as to have been born here. When you think of all of the places I could have been born, it was in the greatest nation ever in history. Economically, culturally, militarily. There is no place that compares. I could be making mud cookies in Somalia, or herding yaks in Mongolia. There is only one thing holding these other countries back. Their form of government. And unfortunately the hope and change voted in in the last election is what is going to makes us become one of those 3rd world countries I wasn't born into.