IntenseDebate - David

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Change.gov: The Obama-... · 1 reply · +1 points

Ah yes. That passage by Paul that has somehow been interpreted to say that gay sex is "bad". Actually, what it is says is that sex outside of someone's "natural" norm is bad which means if you are someone who is naturally "heterosexual" and you have sex with someone of the same sex, that's "bad" and by the same logic if you are someone who is naturally a "homosexual" and you have sex with someone of the opposite sex, that's also "bad".

Doesn't Paul also go on to say later that you shouldn't judge because if you do, you are only judging yourself? (Romans 2:1)

But this is still "off topic". We're supposed to be talking about "service".

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Change.gov: The Obama-... · 0 replies · +1 points

I would agree with you that it's incorrect to say that the gay civil rights movement is "exactly" the same as the civil rights movement in the 60's. There are, however, many similarities and parallels that can be made which might be what people have been referring to.
But whatever, I don't think it's a good idea to argue about which civil rights movement is more or less valid than the other. I think that you and I can both agree that civil rights is something that should be afforded to ALL people no matter what your race, gender, or sexual orientation may be.
All I can say about Rick Warren is that many of us feel like inviting him to lead the invocation at the inauguration is a big deal because it sets the wrong tone for such historic occasion and it feels a bit like salt in our still open wounds left by the passing of Prop 8 here in California. I know that we all can't be happy and get our way all of the time and that we should take the good with the bad. However, I feel like I need to speak up for myself no matter what because my rights are very important to me and I do see this as an opportunity to express why they are important.

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Change.gov: The Obama-... · 1 reply · +2 points

Do you know this from your own experience???

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Change.gov: The Obama-... · 0 replies · +1 points

That's a matter of opinion and up for debate.

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Join the Discussion: S... · 0 replies · +1 points

Then why do you keep fanning the flames? Obviously, you want to talk about it. so lets talk...

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Join the Discussion: S... · 0 replies · +1 points

Really?!? How is supporting proposition 8 which stripped millions of californians of their rights helping the country??? Rick Warren is a fountain of divisive rhetoric. Inviting him to lead the invocation at the inauguration only validates him and bigots like him. I don't think it's selfish to speak up and voice one's opinion especially when it comes to civil rights for ALL people. Yes, this does affect me on a very personal level because I am gay and I do live in California and I AM married to the man that I love. I will give Barack Obama the benefit of the doubt that he is invited Rick Warren out of good faith so that our differences will be visible so we can talk about them like we are doing now. If you "don't care" about how I or anyone else who is "screaming and stamping their feet" about this feels, then you are the one who is being selfish. I am more than willing to come to an understanding if you are. It's a two way street my friend.

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Change.gov: The Obama-... · 5 replies · +1 points

Fight we will. But why???
We have seen the how hate and discrimination have torn our nation apart time and time again. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that gays and lesbians deserve the same rights as everyone else? We've stated our case time and time again. how much more clear do we need to make it?
Seriously! Tell me. what is not being said to people who are against gay civil rights that we need to say to change their minds?
If your answer is that they will not change their minds because their faith won't let them, then lets let the supreme court do their job and stand up for gays and lesbians like they did with the the civil rights movement in the 60's and give them the rights they desire so that we can all heal as a nation.
When is this going to happen? When are we finally going to learn?

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Change.gov: The Obama-... · 2 replies · +1 points

I think you are taking things out of context as well. I don't think anyone is saying that gay people are the same as black people. What we ARE saying is that black, hispanic, asian, native american people all know what discrimination is because they have felt it personally. I shouldn't have to point out that there are gay people who come in every color, shape, size, and gender. We feel the same discrimination that anyone who is perceived as being "different" feels. We as gays and lesbians don't ask you to like what we do in our own personal lives. We just want civility and fairness when it comes to how we are treated in the social sphere.

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Change.gov: The Obama-... · 3 replies · +2 points

How is the GLBT civil rights movement NOT the same. Civil rights are not just for racial minorities, they are for EVERYONE.

17 years ago @ Change.gov - Join the Discussion: S... · 0 replies · +2 points

I NEVER implied that gays and lesbians are the only people in this country being discriminated against. Of course discrimination happens all around us. Even when we come together as a society to say that it is wrong to treat people who are not white as second class citizens, it is wrong to deny women the right to vote, discrimination still happens. I'm just waiting (believe it or not) patiently for us to come together as a society and say that is is wrong to deny people equal rights based on their sexual orientation.

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